HowardRussell: Good Morning Sunnydale!
Whedonist: Good Morning/Afternoon/Evening all
Crys Loch: Y’all brought the foamy beer, right?
Gin Akasarahsmom: Beer Good!
Jaely: beer bad
HowardRussell: Girl Pretty.
ariestess: All right, here we go!
ariestess: Welcome to the Buffy panel.
ariestess: Panelists, please change your font to bold red [like mine]. Everyone else, please use black text…
bearblue: this close?
the_dhamphir: that’s maroon
ariestess: Has to be the red like mine.
shesgottaread: morning/afternoon, everyone!
bearblue: then definitely this….
HowardRussell: Please be a unique snowflake just like everyone else, blue.
Gin Akasarahsmom: I have all kinds of trouble finding the ‘right’ red too… I think just different than black will work
ariestess: Okay, first hte ground rules. You MUST raise your hand for questions. The mods [those of us with an @ in front of our names] will keep track of the questions for everyone.
Whedonist: Bear, second square down, far right, from the top for the specific color
bearblue: how is this?
ariestess: Okay, panelists, please introduce yourselves. I’ll go first. I’m AJ, aka ariestess, aka A. Magiluna Stormwriter. I’ve written a couple things in the Buffy ‘verse, among other things. I’m your moderator for this panel.
ariestess: That works, bear!
Valyssia: Hello. I’m Valyssia or if you prefer Val. I’ve written a couple of things in the Buffyverse. I’m here for the beer.
HowardRussell: Hi AJ. I’m Howard Russell. I own IKOLY2, a site devoted to hosting Buffy femslash fanfics. Wiffy, specifically.
bearblue: bearblue or katrina when posting fiction. like all types, mostly
alannasky: meow mew hi’
Whedonist: *waves to room* I’m Whedonist, I’ve written for Buffy, it’s how I started in fanfic. If it’s good beer, I’m here for that as well
Crys Loch: I’m Crys Loch. I’ve written a bunch of btvs since early 2000’s. I can’t believe I said ‘yes’ to this…
Whedonist: we’re happy to have you Crys
HowardRussell: We’re glad you did.
Valyssia: It was my winning smile that did it.
ariestess: Happy to have you, Crys!
Whedonist: Thanks to Ariestess and the other organizers as well
HowardRussell: Thanks Val!
Valyssia: That and I can be downright annoying.
ariestess: Okay, is that everyone? I don’t want to miss anyone’s intro.
Valyssia: Indeed, Whedonist. Thanks AJ (and all) for putting this shindig on.
Crys Loch: Say’in there would be beer here would have done it faster.
bearblue: *beer passing*
shesgottaread: *orders a round at the bar*
ariestess: Okay, so let’s get this ball rolling. We’re here to talk about Buffy and the femslashy goodness therein.
ariestess: Feel free to raise your hand via the "Raise Hand" button, if you’ve got a question.
ariestess: I’ll start it out by asking our panelists what got them into Buffy in the first place.
bearblue: mmmmm yep. goodness. also hotness…
Valyssia: Oh, jeez. Sheer insanity.
HowardRussell: Alyson Hannigan.
Whedonist: Boredome at work and trolling the internet
Alkmaion: Uh, raise hand button? Where is that one? Thanks in advance
Valyssia: The S8 comics. They were so, umm…interesting I had to play with the material.
Whedonist: I’d been a fan of the show and then discovered fanfic…total downfall, but in a good way
Crys Loch: It was good tv. different. good story telling. I like strange shows.
ariestess: The Raise Hand button should be under the list of room members, to the right of the chat window.
HowardRussell: Right hand side. Under the list of people in the room.
bearblue: agrees with whedonist
Alkmaion: Thanks HR
ariestess: For all panelists :: Did the movie play into your interest at all?
bearblue: so much fanfic…..eyes glow
Valyssia: Yes, and what Crys and Whedonist said. But I didn’t see myself writing anything until the comics came out.
Whedonist: Not really – the movie was okay, but the show…it’s epic
Crys Loch: The movie… no. That was camp fail.
bearblue: movie: only vaguely
HowardRussell: To be honest, I loved the movie. I refused to watch the show at first because of it.
Valyssia: Not really. I was late to the fandom. I didn’t start watching the show until it had been off the air for about a year.
Crys Loch: lol howard.
Valyssia: Howard is an odd duck.
ariestess: Jaely, you have the next question.
bearblue: one of the few shows that did a movie proper
Jaely: what is your favoraite pairing and what draws you to them as a couple?
HowardRussell: Wiffy. I’m a firm believer in the adage: best friends make the best lovers.
Crys Loch: b/w and it’s the power dynamics. and the fact they’ll do anything for each other and forgive each other anything.
bearblue: depends on the author… a good author can sell me on harmony & willow…. if they do it right
bearblue: so no fave faves
ariestess: I was always a Willow/Tara girl. Well, let’s be honest, I’m a Willow girl period.
Whedonist: I have a preference for Buffy/Willow, but enjoy the other ships as well, Willow/Tara, i have small love of Dawn/Faith and Buffy/Faith if it’s done well enough – their dynamic is volitile that I think you have to be careful with characters for it to work
Whedonist: Amen, ariestess
Valyssia: I hate to admit to having a favorite pairing because this has never been about ‘shipping to me. I couldn’t give a diddly dippity doodah whether my faves ever got together in canon. In fact I’m glad they didn’t because that was the great killer of characters. I write primarily Buffy/Willow because the two characters are marvelous fun together.
bearblue: willow tara is iconic
Crys Loch: I’ve ended up loving B/T fics too, but can’t place why…
Whedonist: Willow/Tara is how I got sucked into fanfic so yeah, def. iconic
Jaely: cool thanks!
ariestess: Anyone else have any questions?
ariestess: Alkmaion, you have the next question.
Alert: Alkmaion hand was lowered by ariestess
ariestess: And feel free to raise your hands at any time. I’m keeping track of the order for asking/answering htem.
Alkmaion: Uh whaz´s the most underapprreaciated characzerr, ficwise for you?
Alkmaion: I myself wrote a Lishanne oneshot
Whedonist: Anya, I don’t think she get’s enough love. That being said now i’m going to have to figure out how to work into something.
Valyssia: For femslash? Xander obviously. He makes a marvelous barometer. Showing things through his eyes can put a wonderful spin on them.
ariestess: LOL @ Val. Hadn’t thought of that.
Valyssia: I had. I love using him. Doesn’t hurt that Howard is a huge fan.
ariestess: And Jaely, you have the next question again.
Alert: Jaely hand was lowered by ariestess
bearblue: anya is awesome….but so many characters to choose from…
HowardRussell: Other than the odd pwp, I don’
Crys Loch: See, and I love Giles reaction and observation to things.
Valyssia: Same deal, yeah, Crys.
HowardRussell: The enter key next to the quote key strike again!
Jaely: which character do you have a hard time finding the voice of when writing your fics, and how do you over come the problem?
HowardRussell: Ooh! Good one.
ariestess: Oh, good question21
Jaely: it’s a problem I have a lot so… yeah
Valyssia: All of them at one time or another. I read scripts to solve voice issues. Seeing the character in the same medium I’m working in is the best way for me to sort things out.
bearblue: the solve: write the character that is friends with them until you get a feel for the voice…
bearblue: so they bounce off one another
Whedonist: I’ve never had a good handle on Cordy’s level of bitchiness, or not making Dawn seem whiny – and for a fix, sometimes I’ll watch the show, other’s the script and sometimes I’ll go back to fic writers that I think have a great handle on the character.
Valyssia: That’s an interesting solution, Bear.
Crys Loch: Giles. I have to really try to get my british boy on, and… sometimes I just can’t.
Whedonist: LOL Giles can be a pain
ariestess: When I have written for the fandom, I’ve found it easier to watch a few eps to get the patter again, but even that doesn’t always help.
ariestess: LOL! Giles is actually the easiest character for me to write personally.
bearblue: hard to not rely on cliches at those times
Crys Loch: Reading another’s fic done right really helps me most times.
Ceridwyn2: ha, I actually figured this out
Valyssia: I love writing Giles. I actually have a harder time with Buffy than him. My all time PITA character is Illyria. I look to Mabus for help with her.
Jaely: *takes notes on the ideas*
bearblue: likes what everyone has said so far
Valyssia: So yeah, I use other authors for help myself.
ariestess: For me, it helps that I have a lot of "stock" characters that have a similar intellectual and academic background as Giles, so I borrow from them, then tweak the wording to fit him.
Valyssia: I’m not sure how well I write Giles, but I enjoy writing him.
Whedonist: I can see how that would work for Giles.
ariestess: The kids tend to be harder BECAUSE of the slang.
Crys Loch: If I watch the show, I just get lost in the show and forget to pay attention to the character I’m having a problem with.
ariestess: @Crys, I’ve done that, too!
Ceridwyn2: Last time I wrote Buffy – which was some time ago, I didn’t have much problem writing Giles.
Whedonist: The slang can be killer – their speech patterns can be crazy sometimes.
HowardRussell: And they’re too easy to overdo.
Crys Loch: I love writing the kids. Maybe I haven’t grown up yet…
Alkmaion: Interesting ideas..
Jaely: yeah I find myself editing the slang all the time in my fics… it’s frustrating.
ariestess: *nods* That’s why I HAVE to watch some episodes from the time frame I’m writing before I can really start to feel comfortable. And I still think I miss the mark a lot of the time.
Valyssia: I actually love doing that. It’s fun to play with the language.
ariestess: Not that I’ve written a LOT for this fandom myself, but still…
Ceridwyn2: That, and Joss was very much into using present day (for the length of the series) cultural media references, too
Crys Loch: @Val, exactly. You get to play with words.
ariestess: Yes, he was.
ariestess: Are there any further thoughts on that, or shall we move on to the next question?
bearblue: I kind of love reading fanfic that is updated with current tech….
Valyssia: There were a lot of older refs too. Joan Collins ‘tude wasn’t new. That referred to Dallas.
bearblue: for that reason
Ceridwyn2: Okay, "Full of Grace" was the only Buffy fic I wrote
Ceridwyn2: well, wrote & posted
ariestess: All right, Alkmaion, you have the next questions.
Alkmaion: Rewatching the show, did you have an aha moment sometime, finding something you missed before?
Valyssia: Yeah, you may be right.
Ceridwyn2: Collins wasn’t on Dallas
Valyssia: Thank you. Brain fart.
Valyssia: Anyway, one of those old 80’s shows.
Ceridwyn2: I know my ol’ time primetime soaps
Valyssia: *bows to your superior knowledge*
Ceridwyn2: Better now that Dallas is back on primetime again with new shows
bearblue: all the time. Iam constantly shocked at how young they were… yet so brave… so giddy… so dumb and amazing,
Alkmaion: I miself rethought S1 and 2 again with the premise that Angel worked always for the Mayor
Whedonist: I’ve had tons of those, I usually find something new when I do a rewatch.
ariestess: I’ve found tidbits in older ep rewatches before in other series. I’ll know with Buffy when I introduce it to my nephew later this fall.
Crys Loch: Many. I always see something. But they are little things. Careful moments. Nothing my brain can remember in the morning after cyber beer.
Ceridwyn2: I remember when we were watching it, a friend of m
Ceridwyn2: mine said every time she watched it seemed to be the Inca Mummy Girl ep
Whedonist: I’ve also found fanfic has distorted my brain, I’ll watch something and go "That didn’t happen like that…" then remember that it was in a fic and not on the show. *sigh*
Valyssia: Poor, poor Whedonist.
ariestess: I’ve done that, too!
Ceridwyn2: Oh, I’ve done that.
bearblue: I grieve the cruciamentum the most…giles did wrong and it shifted everything
Alkmaion: I liked the Pergamon Codex, with his stuff about the last slayer or something
HowardRussell: I’ve done that!
Jaely: I do that all the time Whed
Crys Loch: fanon vs canon… it can get a little messy
bearblue: has done similarly on fanfic vs, episode
Whedonist: That’s why I call back on my head canon @Crys. It’s so much easier to keep straight.
Valyssia: In many cases fanon is more sensible than canon.
Whedonist: *fall back
the_dhamphir: agreed, val
Ceridwyn2: I was doing that with one of our OVS writers the other day and she was thinking of doing something, and I remembered we’d done something very similar the previous season.
bearblue: no kidding valyssa
Ceridwyn2: So, we’ve done it with many different shows
Whedonist: *nods emphatically* @ Val. Canon can be…well, I hate to call it wrong, but there were times in the show where you stop and call BS on what they did to the character
Valyssia: Call me Val.
HowardRussell: Any more questions?
Ceridwyn2: Sometimes they forget their own character history
bearblue: or motivations
Valyssia: Yeah, the retcon in the show is just–
Valyssia: It gets better in the comics.
bearblue: thus my support for au
Ceridwyn2: true dat. But that happens with just about any show when they want to further the plot or take it in a different direction
Crys Loch: But this is why we have fanfic in the first place, right?
ariestess: Okay, here’s a question for all of you… What’s easier/more fun/whatever to write: short stories or longer stories?
HowardRussell: Retcon from the get-go.
Whedonist: And it why I prefer fanfic, @Crys.
Alkmaion: Well, i have not enough energy to write longer stuff and stay with shorties
Ceridwyn2: It depends on the idea floating around in my head. Sometimes i have a great idea for a long story, but somewhere along the line, it gets blurred or I lose interest
Jaely: *hands Val a paperbag*
HowardRussell: Short stories. Less to outline. Less outline to stick to.
Ceridwyn2: Now, reading, i like long stories. Writing moderate – 1000-7000 words.
Whedonist: Longer fic. I feel more committed to it and push for it more. Shorts are fun, but I seem to lack the ability to be short winded
bearblue: i end up writing long whether i ,en to or not…..*growls* but it is usually fun except during creative blocks….bleh
Crys Loch: short stories. but then if the arc is longer I just string them together in a series.
Valyssia: Easier? Really? I have great fun stitching together novel length works. I alos have great heartache, great stress, great–well, you get the idea. It’s work.
Jaely: longer fics to both write and read
Valyssia: And I love it. I enjoy writing. I feel some sense of accomplishment. I lear something every time.
Ceridwyn2: LOL. My longest ever written story was OVS which was about 36K words. Longest non-OVS is Spooks/MI5 at 14.6K. I think my only Buffy piece was about 7K
Valyssia: I’ve recently started playing with putting out short fiction. That’s fun too.
Boots1987: Hi everyone? What is the topic?
Valyssia: My longest piece is, uh…well, over 200K.
ariestess: I try to write whatever the muses allow me to write.
ariestess: @Boots1987, we’re talking about Buffy femslash.
bearblue: i have to have a really really clear idea to keep it short
Ceridwyn2: The hardest sometimes to write are drabbles because you have a limited number of words to convey what you want to say
Valyssia: Me too.
ariestess: I LOVE the challenge of a drabble.
Whedonist: *L* drabbles are the devil…
Crys Loch: I try to write a complete story, however long or wide. Just at least complete.
Ceridwyn2: I did a series of Bad Girls drabbles based on a song or even one line of lyric in a song.
HowardRussell: I’ve tried to drabble. It’s a lot harder than it looks.
bearblue: nods at crys
Valyssia: Yeah. I love working drabble length. I forces me to do something that runs counter to my nature.
ariestess: And we’re looking at 20 more minutes of this panel, everyone. Feel free to ask a question.
Ceridwyn2: It’s very hard
Boots1987: ah ok
Whedonist: And we appreciate the completelness, or at least i do as a reader and writer
Boots1987: i think drabbles are best for non-canon fics
HowardRussell: Read Beer Good Foamy. He does canon drabbles that will make you cry.
ariestess: I tend to disagree on drabbles being best for non-canon fics. You can write canon within the confines of a drabble just as easily as non-canon.
Ceridwyn2: My preference are long well-written (and beta’d) fic, usually canon-based or not so far off AU that the characters are unrecognizable.
bearblue: great for unexpected pairings. if they work they make you yearn for more
Valyssia: *nods at AJ*
ariestess: *nods* Exactly, bear!
ariestess: Alkmaion, you have the next question!
Alert: Alkmaion hand was lowered by ariestess
Alkmaion: Well, what do you think is the strongness of BTVS femslash fandom?
Whedonist: A.U.’s tricky, I’ve only seen it go one of two way, really great (’cause you keep the characters the characters) or horribly awry
HowardRussell: The characters.
bearblue: so much backbone to the womn in the cast
Valyssia: Yeah, the characters are enduring. They are flawed in ways that we can all relate to.
HowardRussell: Buffy is a rich and complex character. So many motivations and desires to work with.
Alkmaion: I believe some very strong followings for certain pairings B/W, B/F and W/T keep the whole fandom alive and non stagnant
Ceridwyn2: The characters are strong, and relateable
Whedonist: Buffy/Faith is the strongest from what I’ve seen, then Willow/Tara.
Valyssia: Yeah. B/F has the largest following.
Valyssia: From what I’ve seen.
Gin Akasarahsmom: I’ve always been a Buffy/Willow fan
HowardRussell: The actors had fantastic chemistry.
Crys Loch: The women. They are varied and many and each are strong in their own way. And they are three dimensionsal. You don’t see that with a lot of shows.
bearblue: stuff is postd daily on the fic archives, its a very jungian settimg…
ariestess: The camaraderie of the characters is so strong, and that really makes the show for me.
Whedonist: That being said, you will find pockets that ship the various and that’s great because as everyone’s said, the women in the Buffyvers are all amazing.
the_dhamphir: I’m with you gin
shesgottaread: *needs more B/W*
HowardRussell: They played it up too. Xena was still going strong, so they played up the Fuffy.
Valyssia: *is working on it*
Ceridwyn2: Willow/Tara probably less so because they were actually canon, whereas Buffy/Faith or Buffy/Cordelia were less so
Ceridwyn2: were not canon, so people explored more, perhaps
ariestess: So does canon femslash make a difference then?
Gin Akasarahsmom: I was a Buffy/Willow fan before Tara ever entered the picture.
Gin Akasarahsmom: Tara just messed things up for me
Ceridwyn2: I think it depends on the fandom, tho
Valyssia: I don’t think so. Not for me.
Crys Loch: You know, I like Buffy with just about any woman… Angel or Buffy. It can just work.
bearblue: we’d be slashing anyway.
Whedonist: I think it does.
shesgottaread: same here, and was really disappointed that the fandom seemed to go all w/t, b/w forgotten
Whedonist: If you look at shows with lesbian pairings in canon, how much fic do you find that centers around those pairings?
Ceridwyn2: I think there’s sometimes less written fics sometimes when the pairing is not overtly out & together onscreen, then when it is.
Gin Akasarahsmom: Buffy/Willow has that Xena/Gabrielle feel to it. I think that is why I liked it so much.
Valyssia: I wasn’t around (in the fandom) when the show was on the air. I’m sure that makes a huge difference in my perception.
ariestess: Oh, I’m not saying that the canon pairing kills any other options in fanfic, just curious as to how it plays into your perception of the show and the fanfic.
bearblue: depends on the couple
Gin Akasarahsmom: agree… depends on the couple/show
HowardRussell: It may make it easier to slash them knowing one of them is canonically gay.
Ceridwyn2: definitely depends on the couple.
Crys Loch: i think a lot of the b/w fall off was the later seasons of the show. they just destroyed the character’s core friendship in many ways.
HowardRussell: That’s sadly true.
Ceridwyn2: Certainly if one is canonically gay, it makes it easier…
shesgottaread: you have a point, Crys
Jaely: I’ve always found that Buffy/Willow had more character dynamics then Willow/Tara ever did on screen though I’m happy that thre was a femslash pairing at all
Ceridwyn2: or at least bisexual.
Valyssia: I don’t think that matters on bit Howard. You make it fit or not. You can do that as an author just by say ‘this is how it is in my world.’
Ceridwyn2: Because, in looking at Sanctuary, there are few characters that they’ve put up to Magnus that she has shown any interest in.
Valyssia: I like trying to wheedle it in there a bit more craftily myself, but–
Crys Loch: Yeah, I’ve never been hindered by cannon sexuality.
HowardRussell: That you do.
Jaely: can I ask a question real quick?
Ceridwyn2: And then, sometimes there’s just inherent sexual tension and real chemistry btw two actors D
Ceridwyn2: that you wanna slash them
Valyssia: That’s always the best.
ariestess: Go for it, Jaely!
Whedonist: exactly @Ceridwyn.
Jaely: How do you come up with and maintain the Baddies and the demonic techno babble that is used on the show in your fics? In other words coming up with what the bady is and all the mythos that surrounds it works throughout your story.
ariestess: I will freely admit that I tend to sidestep that sort of thing. I tend to go more for "slice of life" fics and such.
Whedonist: Research @Jaely. There’s usually lots of that on my end and then just good ole randomness
bearblue: recycle baddies or think up new ones or look at myths
Valyssia: And some of it is following the pattern laid down by the show.
Ceridwyn2: Which is exactly what Fall From Grace is about. Plus it also had Jenny Carpenter in there, which I thought was an awesome character
Whedonist: If you use baddies, then recycling works too.
bearblue: or what whedonist said….
Valyssia: Every canon villian has a behavioral pattern.
HowardRussell: As a shipper, I’m more looking at the effect I want the Big Bad to have on the ship, and write to suit.
Ceridwyn2: and behavioural problem…
Crys Loch: Oh, that’s just fun. Creating a demon. What does it do? Why? How do they react? What do they do? I get to create my own stuff. I get to be an author. And with the latest series, the main are the bad guys…
Jaely: ahh ok that all makes a lot of sense thank you
ariestess: All right, we’ve got about 8 minutes left before teh Grey’s Anatomy panel starts. Any last questions for our panelists?
Ceridwyn2: not that I can think of at the moment.
HowardRussell: Someone has to have something to ask.
bearblue: *passes chips*
Jaely: i just want to say thanks to the panel you all have helped me out a lot!
ariestess: Okay, let’s try this one. Would you have an issue if the show was "revamped", like BSG was?
HowardRussell: Has anyone received any flames from writing femslash?
Valyssia: You’re most welcome. Thank you for asking such nifty questions.
Ceridwyn2: Just looking at the panels. Thanks folks!
Whedonist: and No to the revamp! I mean just…
Crys Loch: I’ve got one. Do y’all like cross-overs?
Whedonist: sometimes, things should stay the way they were/are
Valyssia: I wouldn’t if it was done well.
ariestess: Oh, I get flames for femslash. I usually shrug them off.
HowardRussell: I’d hate a revamp. See above, where I hated the series for revamping the movie!
Ceridwyn2: Depends. I did like the BSG revamp, but I think Buffy was just great the way it was
Jaely: I get flames because people don’t read the disclaimers that says it’s an AU story….
ariestess: @Crys :: It depends on the crossover. I started a BtVS/PtL/KtE crossover YEARS ago. Wish I’d finished it…
Whedonist: I like cross-overs if it’s not doo crazy, @Crys
Whedonist: *too crazy
Ceridwyn2: It depends on the cross-over. Fav one was Beauty & The Beast with Quantum Leap – was called "Quantum Beast"
Crys Loch: It’s tricky with the mythos of the Buffy world…
Whedonist: You seem some odd ones that make me scratch my head and go…WTF?
Jaely: it’s too soon to try and even think about revamping Buffy…
HowardRussell: Crossovers that fit can be exceptional. Crossovers that are just to ship usually are crap.
bearblue: no on flames…. ambivalent on revamp… it would eitheer be great or really noy. what i’d reeally like to see is slayer academy with older buffy and willow etc… if they go that route
the_dhamphir: ooh, that sounds good, bear
Valyssia: That would be good.
Crys Loch: that does sound good, bear. You make that show.
ariestess: All right, with three minutes left in our panel, I would like to thank all of our panelists and our attendees today.
Valyssia: Or perhaps a story about an earlier slayer.
Ceridwyn2: another crossover I liked was L&O’s Abby Carmichael with the character Andrea Thompson played on NYPD Blue
Valyssia: It’s a well developed universe there are plenty of possibilites.
bearblue: waves to all. thank you
HowardRussell: Thanks everyone! It was a lot of fun being here
Valyssia: Thank you for having us.
Whedonist: *waves* thanks everyone
Crys Loch: Yep. This was fun. Thanks for the foamy beer!