ariestess: Okay, so welcome to Creating Epics! I’ll be your host for this hour and Dhamphir will be our panelist.
raiderL: hi all!
persicaC: woo! Epic time!
Xenavirgin: Well I can see this is an Epic panel,
ariestess: LOL @ XV
the_dhamphir: I’m Dhamphir, or D for short
Xenavirgin: DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD heheh
ariestess: I’m AJ, ariestess, A. Magiluna Stormwriter — take your pick.
Liberty Stewart: Who’s writing an epic at the moment?
persicaC: very much in a draft
mandygirl78: Me, as usual.
raiderL: define epic
ariestess: I’m working on a couple. One’s posted under a different pseud with a coauthor.
shaych03: i’m writing several
ariestess: Okay, so let’s define epic.
Xenavirgin: I’m with raidr, define epic?
Liberty Stewart: @raider: Story on a fairly large scale I say.
ariestess: For me, an epic is a minimum of 10k words, preferably more than 20k
the_dhamphir: I consider epic, anything that would qualify as a novel.
persicaC: but writing an epic is pretty daunting. I have to preplan chapters, make sure everything lines up in the future.
mandygirl78: Per chapter?
raiderL: then yes, i m writing an epic right now
Xenavirgin: Does it count if you didn’t know you were writing an epic when you stated?
ariestess: I look at epics as total wordcount.
the_dhamphir: and according to one publisher that I know of, that mean at least 60k words
ariestess: Yes, XV, it counts. I’ve had lots of stories like that.
Liberty Stewart: I’m currently writing something that would be considered an epic. Has quite a lot of action and killing in it.
persicaC: big events, big explosions, huge revelations that blow people’s minds
Xenavirgin: Well then I’m in the middle of two. heeh
persicaC: to me, those are the ingredients of an epic
Liberty Stewart: It got the inspirations after watching several action films in a row.
ariestess: All right, so if anyone has a question, feel free to raise your hand, so we don’t miss it.
raiderL: well then yup, def in the epic range! Two if I ever write Arc 3 to a two arc story
mandygirl78: I got two, with the possibility for two more that are epic.
the_dhamphir: epics don’t have to be action/adventure stories
Xenavirgin: WRITE arc 3 Raidr.. pppppppppppppllllllllllllleeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaasssssssseeeeeeee
persicaC: hmmm… something like Pride and Prejudice
ariestess: Nope, I’ve written epics based on curtain fic, tbh.
Xenavirgin: curtain fic???
raiderL: talk to my muse XV
persicaC: or Jane Eyre. IMO, they’re not big action/adventure things. More like, quiet brooding romances
the_dhamphir: the first fanfic I ever posted was an epic, but I had no idea it would turn out to be one
Xenavirgin: Oh raidr’s Muse….COOOKKKKKIIIIEEESSS
raiderL: have to b chocolate
persicaC: but those two classics are considered epics, right?
mandygirl78: Yeah, one of my epic is a romance with some comedy in is, and the other one is more like an inspirational drama, with some romance.
ariestess: Curtain fic is domestic fic. The idea is the couple being so “old hat” at being a couple, you write fic about them picking out/buying/hanging curtains.
persicaC: is “Curtain Fic” an insult?
persicaC: or a legitimate subgenre?
Xenavirgin: Ahhhhhhhh thanks AJ, hadn’t heard that one before.
the_dhamphir: I’m currently working on an orginal story and have about 52k written, and it’s nowhere near finished
shaych03: most of my pieces start with the idea of being small, but grow – such as the one grumpybear and i are working on currently.
Alkmaion: is that kind slice of life manga?
the_dhamphir: curtain fic is a genre
Liberty Stewart: All my epics are guaranteed to be a crossover.
grumpybear1031: currently? try for years
mandygirl78: Shouldn’t be, because they can be better than the ‘new romance’ stories. Curtain fics are somewhat like slice-of-life
ariestess: Curtain Fic is most certainly not an insult AFAIC, but some don’t like it at all.
persicaC: I have never heard of the term “Curtain Fic” until now.
Xenavirgin: Hey where’s Gin?? She’s the Epic kid.
mandygirl78: slice-of-lives are underappreciated IMHO
grumpybear1031: I like em too.
Gin Akasarahsmom: I’m hosting in Criminal Minds.
the_dhamphir: she modding another panel
persicaC: I mostly hear advice where people say your characters had better be doing something important or of urgency and not doing anything boring like mundane RL chores.
ariestess: I end up doing a lot of curtain fic.
Xenavirgin: I love slice of life fics Mandy, but the ones I know are usually short or drabbles
ariestess: Most of my longer curtain fic/slice of life stuff is series strung together I suppose.
ariestess: So what do people like to see in epic fic?
Xenavirgin: Character development.
persicaC: I want epics to make me feel emotions. Big feelings
mandygirl78: I’m doing something that’s like a slice-of-life.
Xenavirgin: Especially if it’s an epic that goes over a number of years.
mandygirl78: Big +1 on what Xena said.
raiderL: I like a balance of slice of life tossed into the greater plot.
persicaC: I want epics to make me say, “Holy shit!, That’s bananas!”
raiderL: Def character development.
the_dhamphir: the one i’m working on is covering about 18-24 months
ariestess: *nods* I’ve done that sort of thing, raiderL
shaych03: pers: you’ll say that about what GB and I are working on, i expect
raiderL: My two arcs covered about a month and a half and are prob at the 170K word count together
persicaC: haha, you’ll need to send me a link then.
Xenavirgin: That’s cool D, I guess I mean I don’t like long epic fics where the characters are exactly the same at the end as they were at the beginning of the fic despite the events or time elapsed.
shaych03: we’re still working on it – and we just hit 7.2 million words
LZClotho: epics by definition should be changing the characters… in profound ways.
raiderL: btw arie – been following your stuff for years!
LZClotho: they are the ultimate AU of a fandom, IMHO
grumpybear1031: it’s been years
ariestess: The cowritten piece I’ve got right now under a different name [and no, I’m not talking about LWM for those who know it] has ended up at over 100k words so far for a timeframe of about a week and a half.
ariestess: raider: Thanks!
mandygirl78: My yuri fanfic so far only covered six months and it’s already past 120k
raiderL: Wow! arie – that’s a lot happening in a short time! But it gets away from you sometimes doesn’t it?
the_dhamphir: one of my 2 main characters is a recently widow (4 mos) with a 6 month old baby
ariestess: raider: It can. We’ve actually had people “yell” at us for part of the plot, saying it was unrealistic for the pairing in question.
the_dhamphir: who meets, become friends with, and over the course of about a year and half, falls in love with the woman
raiderL: I love detail and getting in the characters’ head. Can’t write that briefly.
the_dhamphir: *woman doctor
raiderL: arie – really? OOC?
ariestess: *nods* It’s a Swan Queen piece and we got bashed for involving Daniel in a crucial way.
raiderL: Hopefully they didn’t literally yell and were at least constructive about it!
Xenavirgin: Do you sometimes feel that some writers work to word count rather than quality of content?
ariestess: Oh no, there was no constructiveness involved.
Xenavirgin: AJ, you write Swanqueen??? Where??
grumpybear1031: We’ve actually said screw the word count and are just writing where it takes us. That’s why it’s gotten so damn long
raiderL: And yeah, what XV said. SwanQueen? Where?
LZClotho: Xenavirgin, when I come across that, it is easy to tell. Too wordy, too overwrought in the language, emotions overblown. I click away.
ariestess: XV: It’s currently all on AO3, I think, with the exception of the epic that’s on FF.net
ariestess: But not under my name on FF.net.
Xenavirgin: Cool beans
raiderL: LZ – you and me both. If it needs to be said, say it but don’t blow it out just to get the wordcount. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Xenavirgin: And LZ, yeah me too.
the_dhamphir: i agree
raiderL: arie what’s your ff.net ID?
ariestess: LZ: I agree that some writers do write to wordcount, rather than tell teh story.
Xenavirgin: I read this epic Voyager fic years ago, and it was like done in 5-8 page chapters but each chapter did a sort of “Last week on Blossom” recap of the previous chapter and it was soooooooo repetative.#
Liberty Stewart: Never understood why would someone structure a fic based on word count.
ariestess: Noring SQ
LZClotho: and even in starting an epic, you have to have a sense of theme in what transformation you want to see the characters undergo, or trial they will face on a character level, not just in action after action
raiderL: cool, thanks! gonna look it up!
ariestess: That’s our ff.net ID for our stories. We’ve got 3 up so far.
ariestess: None finished yet.
LZClotho: you can also tell when an “epic” has gone beyond its best length.
ariestess: I’ve used word count for particular challenges, but also always try to sign up with stories in mind to be longer in general.
raiderL: It’s sometimes hard to know when it’s “done”. I find I have to listen closely and pay attention to what my characters tell me. They usually say when it’s done.
Xenavirgin: Ahhh that’s a good point LZ. I know that can sometimes result from fan demand for more but when the writer doesn’t want to do a properly structured sequal.
ariestess: The characters always have the final say on length of story for me. Without question.
mandygirl78: Or you can reach a climax, and can’t figure out how to properly end the story.
LZClotho: I’ve written epic level at least once in each fandom, if epic=>100,000 and each time I knew it was going to be long, because the tapestry i was weaving was complex, needed the space.
Liberty Stewart: @LZC: There is character development in my epic stories… underneath all that action that is.
Xenavirgin: The first epic I’m still finishing (but near as damn it done.) was meant to be a one shot drabble. So I’ve been writing it sort of Chapter to chapter
raiderL: LZ – that’s a good way to think of it. A tapestry. Complex weaving of many threads.
ariestess: Actually, LZ, that’s a good point re: thinking of an epic as a tapestry.
the_dhamphir: each of my epics were the just the length they needed to be
Xenavirgin: The second I knew was going to be epic so I drafted in my tried and true Essay plan model to block the story out so I can make sure all my threads interact.
the_dhamphir: i don’t know how long my current story will be, i just know what has to happen in the the story for it to be complete
ariestess: Okay, that’s a good question for those of you who do write epics. Are you a plotter or a pantster?
raiderL: XV – Like a Hurricane started out as a challenge and I posted before being finished or even finished with the outline. Hardest thing I’ve ever done writing it.
LZClotho: My very first one out in Xena fandom was epic… “History Cast in Amber”, I wanted to cover the issue of Gabrielle losing her blood innocence and what that did to Xena (and her bond with Ares). Thus action was born, but character transformation was the theme.
Xenavirgin: Ahh Raidr,Tickle Tantrum started the same way. lol
Liberty Stewart: By pantster do you mean smut writing?
raiderL: XV and it’s tortuous isn’t it?
LZClotho: pantser refers to the idea that you do not plan ahead when you write.
ariestess: No, pantser as in writing “by the seat of yuor pants”
LZClotho: it has nothing to do with the content of the writing
the_dhamphir: i’ve done it both ways
persicaC: I love writing as a pantser
Xenavirgin: Yup, especially when all this stuff comes up that you just have to include although it was never there in your original idea.
mandygirl78: I’m both
ariestess: I’ve done both, but honestly I usually tend to be a pantser across the board.
persicaC: But I find it difficult to have the patience to plan
the_dhamphir: Weak in the Knees was by by the seat of my pants
the_dhamphir: i posted chapters as finished them and they were beta’d
raiderL: I’m usually a plotter but I allow for the unexpected todrop in to drop in
LZClotho: I’m a plotter, but there’s room for lots of tangents as the characters develop and change.
Liberty Stewart: Plotter definitely. Never write a story I have no idea how it’s going to end.
ariestess: If I overly plan/outline a story, it will literally kill the muse’s interest and then I lose interest.
mandygirl78: My first epic fanfic is most panster, but the second one, until now, is mostly by plot.
ariestess: Oh, I’ll have a rough idea of how it ends, but I don’t plot out each point from A to Z.
Liberty Stewart: It’s in between where certain changes can be made.
persicaC: I feel like the better writers are plotters
mandygirl78: @aristess – That’s me 80% of the time
the_dhamphir: the current story i’m working on is more plotted out, though there’s a lot that still needs to be filled i
the_dhamphir: filled in
raiderL: D – and did it drive you crazy to do it that way?
persicaC: well, according to how they make progress on their fics, they say that they mostly preplan their chapters out.
raiderL: It’s a lot of pressure to not know where you’re going to go with something!
LZClotho: for me however plotting can be as little as a paragraph of summation (short story) or a page (for a longer story). Generally one sentence is a keystone for a scene.
the_dhamphir: actually it didn’t, raiderL, because it was my first time, and I didn’t know any better. LMAO
raiderL: LMAO!!! Lucky you!!!
persicaC: soooo…. what are you
the_dhamphir: it turned out to be a 50 chapter 106k story
ariestess: @mandy: the vast majority of my fic is like that, whether a 100 word drabble or a 100k+ series.
mandygirl78: let me take that back. The second epic fanfic was suppose to be no more than 10 chapters. Now it’s at 25 chapters. So it’s somewhat an panster.
mandygirl78: artis: i see
persicaC: favorite epics anyone?
Liberty Stewart: @dhamphir, that’s my current epic too structure too.
persicaC: Mine is, The Guilded Chains We Wear by Kuraibites
the_dhamphir: but then i did again with a 136k story *facepalm*
persicaC: it’s everything I want to accomplish in an epic.
the_dhamphir: that one did bother me a little bit
raiderL: I usually plot out a general outline and then build up character bios – especially if there’s not a heavy back story for the characters like in DWP
shaych03: Partners by Melissa Good
ariestess: If it counts, the “Just Between” series from Gina Dartt.
raiderL: D – I coud see where it might do that!
Xenavirgin: Like Series by Gin, It’s all relative by HBH, and Raidrs DWP in the two arcs which I’m drawing a blank on because I have Swiss cheese for brains and the holes keep moving.
raiderL: It’s the Only Life You’ve Got
the_dhamphir: which probably why I spent a few months doing research before I even started on my original that I ‘m currently working on.
persicaC: Is everyone here mostly working on their own original fiction epics? Or a big fanfic epic?
the_dhamphir: including outlining a calendar of events
LZClotho: series I think are different than epics, because they each have distinct plots, even though they grow the characters over the course of many months, years just like epics.
ariestess: I do both. Most of my original stuff isn’t published anywhere though.
raiderL: Yeah, research is so important when starting from scratch. Gotta make them have depth and in a rich environment that people can see.
Xenavirgin: Fanfic epics…although everyone keeps telling me my Au ancient egypt fic could be done as an original.
LZClotho: I’ve done both, persica. I have published novels, and epic length fanfics too.
the_dhamphir: This past NaNo is the first time I’ve really focused on doing something original
Liberty Stewart: Fanfic epic. Characters from at least 10 different franchises are crossing over.
the_dhamphir: but my posted epics are all fanfics
raiderL: I’ve been writing ff but have started to write original. And they’ll be epic as well!
ariestess: I’ve worked on versions of the same original novel for NaNo several times now since 2002. Still trying to find the right angle for it.
Xenavirgin: Liberty 10 DIFFERENT franchises????
ariestess: I have a few small sneak peek ficlets up on my pro blog for it, but they’re not necessarily part of the novel, just the universe itself.
the_dhamphir: I’ve been encouraged to convert at least one of my epics to original
persicaC: That’s a long time arietess… .wow!
mandygirl78: I don’t know if it will make doing epic fanfic easier, but I’m now trying to use Dragon Naturally Speak.
ariestess: @Liberty: Nice! WE’ve got a big one like that. I think our last count was 30 different franchises/series, plus the OCs?
raiderL: arie – since 2002? Wow, that’s dedication to keep trying to find whatever it is you think it needs.
Shatterpath: We need to get back to that…
ariestess: The original novel is really important to me, but I cannot find the right angle, so I keep trying.
Liberty Stewart: @Xena: Yup taken from the fic itself: Judge Dredd, Community, 90s Batman movies, 007 James Bond, Heroes, Star Wars EU and a few other surprises
ariestess: Yes, Shatter, we do.
Xenavirgin: Holy Mother of Mountains!!
raiderL: arie – I believe you’ll get there – if you’ve hung on this long without tossing it – I def say you’ll find “it”.
ariestess: raider: I can only hope. Those characters are my babies.
Liberty Stewart: @Xena: It’s tied in and connected to other epic crossovers I’m planning too.
raiderL: arie: I totally get it!
Shatterpath: an epic has a real effect on the brain and the muse
Alkmaion: that sounds…ominous, shatter *g*
Shatterpath: you can’t help but really see the epic like an offspring almost
ariestess: When writing your epics, do any of you have soundtracks/playlists you create?
Xenavirgin: @ Liberty, a real glutton for complication huh?
ariestess: And then you can’t unassociate the music with it?
ariestess: I suppose that goes for any writing, but epics in particular, since we spend so much time on them.
Xenavirgin: I don’t tend to listen to music when I write.
the_dhamphir: i don’t, but i do have a playlist that reminds me of Sam/Janet because I did play it a lot when I was writing them.
raiderL: Every once in a while a song will pop in but no.
Xenavirgin: But if I were to put a soundtrack to Lord of the Nile, I think I’ll steal the soundtrack to Gladiator. heheh
mandygirl78: Depends on the story. I try to use the music that relates to the story, in terms of plot or time period.
Liberty Stewart: @Xena: I can handle. The backstory makes it easier to map out. Though it may be confusing for those who aren’t familiar with the set up.
ariestess: Music usually helps me write better/longer/whatever.
ariestess: I can’t work in total silence.
Shatterpath: I love writing to tunes
LZClotho: Due to spending much of my life with poor hearing, music is not a soundtrack for story writing for me. I work mostly from graphic and video inspirations.
mandygirl78: Like for bomb girls, I have to listen to swing, jump boogie, or jazz
the_dhamphir: it depends. sometimes music can be distracting, other times it helps
ariestess: LZC: That’s interesting. I can watch movies/tv shows I know and let them be background noise, like music.
raiderL: I’m ADHD – music on when I’m writing, unless instrumental, distracts the hell out of me!
the_dhamphir: i prefer instrumental if i have music on
Liberty Stewart: Music makes it easier to write for me.
mandygirl78: i can’t listen to rhianna while writing a bomb girls fic!
mandygirl78: do you know how much that can throw you off! LOL!
the_dhamphir: i can imagine
ariestess: The best music for me to write to is actually the really hard heavy metal music. Like Disturbed, Godsmack, or my brother’s band, among others.
the_dhamphir: that would give me headache
ariestess: And that works for ANY kind of writing, too. Anything from curtain fic to fluff to smut to angst to anythnig…
raiderL: Every muse has their perfect world in which to communicate!
mandygirl78: not into metal. it’s hard for me to listen to grunge music while writing a script for my Jem fan-comic.
ariestess: The beat increases my heart rate, so I feel more energized. At leat that’s what I like to tell myself. Plus, I just like the music.
Xenavirgin: I won’t turn off music if I’m writing but it’s only background noise for me.
the_dhamphir: What’s the longest single story you’ve ever written?
Alkmaion: Chapter or story?
ariestess: I’d have to go look. By myself, I’ve got a couple over 50k for sure. Cowritten, it’d have to be LWM, which is at nearly 500k words total so far, I think.
Alkmaion: 40 kb, I guess
Xenavirgin: Longest story for me is 60K.
the_dhamphir: but is LWM really a story or several stories in a one universe?
mandygirl78: 20K is my longest one-shot
raiderL: arc 2 = 93K
LZClotho: 138K words was the longest for me
ariestess: D: It depends on how you look at it. I consider it multiple chapters in one story.
LZClotho: first draft of my first novel
raiderL: how lom
LZClotho: final draft was still over 100K, 113K
Xenavirgin: And what a 93K they are raidr…but they’re lonely for the other half of their sandwich. heheh
raiderL: how long was that LZ?
Liberty Stewart: The fic I’m been talking about currently comprises of 31 pages and over 14000 words.
raiderL: subtle XV!
raiderL: I’m actually thinking of making it an original fiction…
Xenavirgin: That’s me Raidr..subtle…like a sledgehammer.
LZClotho: My first novel’s draft was written in 6 months in 2001. April to September
LZClotho: Took me another three years to edit it for submission and four rejections to finally match up with a publisher.
the_dhamphir: which publisher took it?
raiderL: Wow LZ!
LZClotho: the now-defunct PD Publishing. I have it out again now though in ebook with Supposed Crimes.
Liberty Stewart: You got a book published LZ? Impressive.
shaych03: i’m with Ylva now. working on a revision to Banshee’s Honor
ariestess: Considering I’m at over 10 yrs on and off to try to write the same novel, but no idea how much longer it’ll take to get the final version to editing stage.
persicaC: too bad they went out of business. but mighty impressive that you got published
LZClotho: I have had two novels published, and half a dozen short stories and novellas in collections. I also edited a charity collection in which I had a story.
LZClotho: I’ve been earning money for my writing since 2007.
ariestess: I really need to get some original stuff published. I’m still upset about the anthology that accepted me being ditched.
Liberty Stewart: I actually feel like doing a little writing in between this and hot topics.
ariestess: Though in fairness, it was ditched because the editor passed away & no one wanted to pick up the idea.
raiderL: That’s so cool LZ! That’s my goal, not necessarily to make a living but it would be a kick to get paid for oing what I love!
LZClotho: cons like this always juice my writing. I wrote 11000 words since yesterday, a complete short fanfic
ariestess: All right, it looks like we’ve got about 8 minutes left in this panel.
raiderL: What fandom LZ?
ariestess: I need to go back and take all of my #SQ1T ficlets and expand them out. That was an intention for IDF but got sidetracked.
LZClotho: I currently am posting fanfic in the OUAT fandom, SwanQueen pairing.
LZClotho: I expanded 9 of mine, so far, ariestess
raiderL: I need to add you to my follow list!
LZClotho: I made one file for all of them.
LZClotho: my ffnet site is http://fanfiction.net/~lzclotho
ariestess: I’ve got the list of 20 in a file staring at me. It’s just getting them written.
ariestess: But the twitter!RP’s taken over my brain lately, as it’s helping expand out one of my OCs.
LZClotho: Best thing I did, ariestess, if I may offer advice, is hard page between each one, and tell myself “no more than a page”… it kinda freed my muse from worrying about making anything really involved.
mandygirl78: So what epics fanfics are everyone working on?
Liberty Stewart: I’ve mentioned mine earlier.
the_dhamphir: I do have one in the works, but don’t when it will be finished.
LZClotho: I’m finally working on updates to my epic Swan Queen story “Your Move”. I am a bad girl; it had been languishing since December.
ariestess: LZC: That’s a good idea. Though I know several of mine actually were parts of what will be a bigger story. If you remember them, they were the ones about Regina’s journal.
the_dhamphir: it’s a crossover between SG-1 and X-Files
raiderL: I mentioned mine as well: Like a Hurricane: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8227441/1/Like-a-Hurricane
LZClotho: My defense is I was a full-time middle school teacher. But I’m about ready to add up two more chapters and possibly three before I return to school in mid-August.
persicaC: Mine is a Bella Swan X Alice Cullen X Leah Clearwater twilight femslash epic. A lesbian twilight (although in this fic, all three of them are bisexual but Leah is leaning more towards women)
ariestess: I’ve got the FF.net epics to work on editing what we have so far, then updating and addiing more, plus I’ve got a couple Swan Queen things to finish expanding.
mandygirl78: I’m working on two: Body Language, A Facts of Life fanfic (on hiatus) and Himeko and Chikane: Their Story, a Kannazuke no Miko (yuri anime) fanfic.
persicaC: I’m having my best bro, fruitionpaper draw some art for it so I can insert it into the chapters.
LZClotho: Yeah, I remember those about Regina’s journal. I set aside all the ones that were related to babies and several that tied together on the Jolly Roger.
raiderL: I’m heading over to DWP now. See you all!
mandygirl78: And I’m working on two tha can be epics as well.
ariestess: Well, let me thank everyone that’s been participating in this panel. The next panel here will be Creating Audio Fics.
Liberty Stewart: So far only 3 chapters of my story has been posted. It’s on Passion Perfect. Kind of hard to miss the franchise mention.
ariestess: Panelists for that should be changing their fonts in preparation.
LZClotho: I would like to read more bisexual fanfics, but I’m not a twilight fan.
persicaC: hah, i just recently got into twilights
persicaC: and I love the humanxvampirexwerewolf angle so yup!
mandygirl78: not that big a twilight fan either.
the_dhamphir: gotta go host another panel. thanks everyone!
minarobins: May I ask
minarobins: Whoop, never mind
minarobins: Figured it out
persicaC: i’m not a twilight fan, but I do love the hilarity of the saga.