Once Upon a Time

ariestess: Can all of the OUaT panelists please change their font to bold red like mine?  Thank you!

ariestess: Welcome to the Once Upon a Time panel! I’m your host AJ, ariestess, A. Magiluna Stormwriter — take your pick, I answer to all three.

ariestess: At this time, can our panelists please introduce themselves?

Kayryn: Hi, I’m Kayryn. I make manips and other graphics for OUaT, WH13 and some other fandoms, and I occasionally write fic.

maggiemerc: Maggiemerc. I write fic about ladies. Primarliy OUAT and Grey’s.

Kayryn: also lysachan sends her regards. She is, unexpectedly, unable to get online this weekend. She wishes us all a good panel and hopes we have a good time.

fictorium: I’m Lola, I write mostly Swan Queen as you may know, and used to write DWP

chilly-flame: hi there-i write fic! i’ve written lots and lots of fic over the years, most recently for devil wears prada, till I was introduced to OUAT.

Kayryn: @chilly, I *adore* your fics.

ariestess: And I forgot to mention that I write OUaT fics, too.  Mostly SwanQueen, but with a few others thrown in for good measure.

Xenavirgin: HOLY MOTHER OF MOUNTAINS!!! Look at the writers!!! Fictorium and Chilly and Swoooooonss

Otakugamer01: @Lola and @chilly-flame Love your fics

ariestess: If anyone has a question, just raise your hand and I’ll get to you asap.

chilly-flame: thank you @kayryn.  i am disappointed about lysachan–please send our best wishes!!

Otakugamer01: <swoons

chilly-flame: hi lola glad you still made it!!

Kayryn: will do

jenrind: I write occasionally as jenrind. callie and arizona but have considered trying swanqueen

ariestess: But first off, I want to throw this out there.  Besides SwanQueen and SleepingWarrior, what pairings are you writing in this fandom?

fictorium: Glad to be here, thanks everyone !

fictorium: I’ve done some Snow Queen, and Evil Princess. I also dabble in het – Mad Queen, Evil Charming but sssh.

maggiemerc: I’m really focused on just the two. Though I did dabble in Jack/Regina fic once. And Mad Queen

chilly-flame: no other pairings for me. i wrote a little threesome last year, but I’m all emma/regina.

ariestess: @fic: Evil Princess?

undergroundwriter92: RedBeauty is quite popular, I’m trying my hand at that

intheinkpot: I think Evil Princess is Regina/Kathryn.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: Ruby/Regina (RedQueen), Maleficent/Ruby, Maleficent/Regina (Evil Dragon) and new Regina/Tinkerbell. I think just about any femslash I can come up with.

ariestess: Oh! Right.

intheinkpot: Sorry about the bold text. Didn’t realize it was on!

fictorium: It is Regina/Kathryn, yes  

ariestess: I’ve written SwanQueen, RedSwanQueen, StablePrincess, and StableSwanPrincess.  Oh, and a Regina/OFC, aka EvilPiper.


ariestess: *cackles & waves at my EvilPiper cowriter*

Shatterpath: I saw that *dryly*

ariestess: Okay, Gin, you’ve got the first question.

Shatterpath: I know about it because ariestess yammers at me

Gin Akasarahsmom: Just wanted to say, it’s Chilly’s fault that I got hooked in the DWP fandom… I read her Small Favors series… and now I’m resisting reading her OUAT fics… because I KNOW she’ll hook me into that too.. and I don’t have time for reading another fandom right now!!   That’s all  😛

Shatterpath: anyway, back to OUaT

BetweenLove_n_Hate: @ Gin, *gasps* If you DO get into OUaT I may faint

Shatterpath: I would love to see more Ruby/Red fics

chilly-flame: lol at gin.  i’m sure everyone would be happy if you unintentionally started reading ouat. heh

chilly-flame: we’ll be here when you’re ready!!

Gin Akasarahsmom: I’m a fan of the show.. I like the pairings.. but I just don’t have time to read/write another fandom at the moment

ariestess: So, let’s try this.  What’s a pairing that you’d like to see more fic for?

Xenavirgin: Gin writing Ouat?? WHere???

Gin Akasarahsmom: I do not… and won’t for quite some time.. right now I just watch the show

fictorium: I’d like to read more Evil Beauty – Belle/Regina. There’s something about it that intrigues me.

ariestess: Ooooers… That might be interesting.  I have mixed feelings about Belle, but anyone looks good with Regina.

Shatterpath: lol

ariestess: Even spoons.

Shatterpath: true dat

Kayryn: @fictorium, agreed. There’s something about Regina being “evil” and Belle being “innocent” that I find interesting

ariestess: Especially spoons.

Otakugamer01: i still want to see some Sleeping Dragon Aurora/Maleficent…is there any?

Gin Akasarahsmom: I’m currently intrigued with the Mulan/Aurora pair

chilly-flame: i’m actually concerned that there will be fewer swan queen stories as we move into s3. i’m worried that the current status around the show and the pairing will discourage writers. i am so hopeful that this is not the case. as for me, i happened to enjoy regina/ruby. a lot.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I would love to see Sleeping Dragon and more RedQueen

Shatterpath: I need to get back to my RedSwanQueen

maggiemerc: That Belle/Regina idea sounds interesting, because we already know Belle has a superhuman tolerance for the bad boys/girls.

Otakugamer01: even better Aurora/Maleficent/Mulan…what would the name of that pairing be?

wistfulwatcher: I wouldn’t mind seeing some more Snow Queen, too.

chilly-flame: i’m surprised there is so little Red Queen out there.

undergroundwriter92: swan queen will never die but redbeauty needs to have more intense fics full of feels

Alsike: currently trying to write a prisonerfic that’s Red Beauty Queen…

ariestess: I have a couple of ideas for SnowQueen, just have to get them percolating again.

ariestess: wistfulwatcher, you have the next question.

chilly-flame: i’d read that @alsike!

wistfulwatcher: What/Do you get anything out of OUAT femslash that you haven’t gotten out of previous fandoms?

fictorium: I keep meaning to turn my hand to Red Beauty or Sleeping Warrior, but I don’t feel I know the characters as well

maggiemerc: There needs to be waaaay more Sleeping Warrior, but it is such a difficult one to write because they’re so thinly drawn. At least for me.

ariestess: I’ll take a stab at that question.  For me, it’s all about Regina.  End of story.  There’s a connection to that character that I’ve never felt for any other, even some of my OCs.  I want to explore everything about her, regardless of who she’s with.

fictorium: @wistful : Hmm, I think the volume and quality of fic and fanart is exceptional? And also Regina/Lana was one of the things I’ve fallen hardest for in a fandom

Shatterpath: good or bad, there is a ton of wiggle room with Sleeping Warrior simply because we don’t know as much about them as many of the regular characters

Kayryn: @ariestess, totally agreed

Gin Akasarahsmom: but we know their stories… and can twist them to fit into this new weird storybrooke world…

fictorium: @maggiemerc – Same. And I’m not au fait with their Disney versions, either, which doesn’t help to fill in gaps.

Shatterpath: there has been some astonishing art for this show, for certain

maggiemerc: Coming from Grey’s its nice to be able to go full tilt into magic/fantasy/action/adventure stuff.

chilly-flame: ooh. i think this is the biggest fandom i’ve ever been a part of that is currently in action (as opposed to DWP, which never produced more than its 2 hrs of source material), so i’d say it’s a little more wild.  

Kayryn: And the interest being about Regina.. it goes for the whole show for me, not just fanfic, or fanart

chilly-flame: amazing art, amazing stories.

Shatterpath: yes

Shatterpath: but Regina is still pretty much the most intrique character

Shatterpath: even with the fails of Season 2

chilly-flame: and more options to write; fairytale land, storybrooke, original place. and to be able to constantly write different stories depending on where we are in the show is also pretty new for me,

fictorium: s1 Emma was also really appealing and interesting to me.

maggiemerc: Also I really like the “bones” of the show.

maggiemerc: Like the execution of OUAT is not always perfect

Shatterpath: i want to know more about Emma! Not have her turn into another ‘I’m incomplete without a MAN!” *cries*

maggiemerc: but there is SO much there to explore and such a vibrant community to explore it in

fictorium: yes, I don’t think I’ve ever been as encouraged or as actively inspired by a community before – SQ fans are something else

BetweenLove_n_Hate: The show does leave so many oppertunites as a writer to work with. Especailly when there is magic already in the fandom anything seems fair game.

chilly-flame: yes @maggiemerc

ariestess: wolvie_dk, you’ve got the next question

wolvie_dk: Which fairytale character, that we have not yet seen on the show, would you like to see? And who would you pair them with?

fictorium: And it’s nice to be able to weave in your own favourite fairytales etc

ariestess: That’s a great question, wolvie!

maggiemerc: I want Donkeyskin.

maggiemerc: but not really

chilly-flame: i’m excited about ariel. although who knows what they’ll do with her.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I’m all for Tinkerbell coming in and pairing her with Regina before I’ve even seen them on screen.

maggiemerc: because shudder at the idea of that story being told on OUAT

fictorium: Rapunzel (played by Elizabeth Mitchell), paired with Ruby maybe? (à la writetherest’s Worlds fic)

chilly-flame: oh YEAH

ariestess: And at the risk of getting another potential eyeroll from someone, I’m going to say the Pied Piper.  Only genderbent.

maggiemerc: @ariestess that is now my dream

maggiemerc: thanks for that

ariestess: @maggie: I’m kind of already cowriting it.


fictorium: ooh, Pied Piper could be great.

wistfulwatcher: why would you even suggest Elizabeth Mitchell as Rapunzel. I need that.

ariestess: And my cowriter is in the chat, but being a lurker.

allroadsleadtoroam: Blame the hangover.

maggiemerc: ! It it published yet? This is what I get for going down a Steam Sale rabbit hole the last few weeks

maggiemerc: also I want to see the show move from European fairytales

ariestess: I believe the Pied Piper [aka EvilPiper] idea came along out of the idea of finding a plausible, realistic partner for Regina while still sticking to canon.

maggiemerc: I want gods, and Chinese and Arabic folklore

undergroundwriter92: Mulan is chinese

maggiemerc: right I want more from Mulan’s world/land

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I’d love for them to bring in Oz or Merlin type stories

ariestess: undergroundwriter92, you have the next question.

ariestess: @maggie: We have the first 2 chapters up on FF.net.  I just need to get more edited and posted.

undergroundwriter92: How do you cope with the fandom being at differnet stages in the series, cos I keep finding out stuff in fics that hasn’t happened yet in the UK

ariestess: @maggie: The author name would help, yes? Noring SQ

fictorium: Although I live in the UK, I follow the US schedule for watching.

Kayryn: @Between, I’d love for them to bring Oz. It probably won’t happen in the show, but that’s why we have fic and graphics, eh?  

ariestess: I am a stickler for spoilers.  Even living in the US, I hate being spoiled for the most part, so just assume others feel the same way.

ariestess: But then I’m on twitter every Sunday night, getting spoiled anyway.  LOL

ariestess: Or begging the BFF for spoilers.

chilly-flame: i just try to hope that all viewers worldwide know a bit about what’s going on, but i try to mention where i am in my stories or where they take off from. at least i hope i do.

Kayryn: I live in Finland, and S1 didn’t start airing until last winter, so I just follow the US schedule

writetherest: hootie hoo!

BetweenLove_n_Hate: @Kayryn, yes yes it is. Though there were hints of Oz with two of Regina’s comments about turning green. So you never know. If they make it far enough into the series they could possibly bring it in

fictorium: that reminds me though – I must get back in the habit of putting ‘spoilers up to x’ in the disclaimer

chilly-flame: heeeyyyyy @writetherest!!

fictorium: @writetherest MY BOO!

writetherest: heyyyyyy

ariestess: tjemd, you have the next question.

Enb0t: A simple “set after episode XX” usually suffices

writetherest: hey boooo

ariestess: @writestherest is here! yay!

Kayryn: @Between, Yup. I once made a fanart/graphic with Regina and Elphaba

tjemd: Do you see any negative impact with respect to the actors’/producers’ responses to non-canon ships?

fictorium: Well, I’m no longer watching the show as a result. Show ended at s2 finale for me. I think quite a few people feel the same.

maggiemerc: I think we’re already seeing the impact.

writetherest: hi y’all. can’t say how long I’ll be here – phone is dying – but had to check in when so many people I love are here.

Kayryn: In a fandom this big, I’m sure some get discouraged… but I also think there are those who won’t let that make a difference

ariestess: Good question, particularly in light of comments from SDCC yesterday.  I’ll be honest and say that, while I don’t agree with what they’re saying, I give them respect for saying it and sticking to their guns.

chilly-flame: i see it, but for my own specific writing inspiration, it literally has no impact on me at all. i am so sad that it has affected everyone, and understand exactly why. i think i just… love the show less than a lot of fans do. i love writing, and i love fic way more than i love the show.

maggiemerc: @chilly_flame yes. This

tjemd: Thirded.

ariestess: I will stick with the show until Regina goes.

writetherest: I definitely see the negative impact towards the show. but I think we’re still going to be shipping SQ. at least I am. and still writing. just a lot leaving the show.

chilly-flame: @lola if we tell you what happened will that keep you inspired?? i am not ready to lose you as a writer in this fandom!

maggiemerc: I was always content with the show to stick around in subtext land

fictorium: @ariestess I agree that it’s better than queerbaiting. I don’t agree with subsequent tone though

fictorium: @chilly I imagine I’ll keep up! To be honest I have so many planned/started things it might speed me up to ignore new canon for a while

writetherest: @chilly Yes. I agree with that.

chilly-flame: oh good @lola  

Xenavirgin: I said my two penneth on the subject on my Tumblr. xvnot15.

ariestess: @fic: No, I totally agree with you on the tone.  But it’s ultimately their show and they could be truly dickheaded about it, but for the most part they’re not.

maggiemerc: I think it speaks to a larger issue

maggiemerc: that governs not just the OUAT fandom

tjemd: Please clearify.

maggiemerc: which is writer versus fan “ownership”

tjemd: clarify.  Jeez — sorry.

writetherest: I think they didn’t handle it well, but I also wasn’t really expecting a different answer. I am sad about Lana and Jen’s comments/rts though

writetherest: and wish they had spoken up at the panel too

maggiemerc: like since Glee there’s been this much more…possessive tone on the part of fans.

fictorium: @maggiemerc good point. I feel these writers especially are protective of their ‘vision’. But it makes for a one-way relationship with fans, in that they’re only interested in the love. Criticism is ‘suffered’, it feels like.

maggiemerc: yes very much so

maggiemerc: it’s one way

maggiemerc: but its curious because it was ALWAYS one way

maggiemerc: until Glee really

Shatterpath: Adam and Eddie are egotistical jerks

BetweenLove_n_Hate: what WAS their reactions to what happened?

writetherest: @lola totally agree with that assessment

fictorium: And they don’t have to listen to fans good or bad, but they can’t expect no feedback when they also use Twitter to promote, etc

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I’m reading so much about what was said but haven’t seen/heard about their reactions to it.

wistfulwatcher: they did learn from Ryan Murphy…

maggiemerc: and now when we see the creators reject our view point

maggiemerc: it comes across as much more vindictive

maggiemerc: particularly because it’s the queer part of the fandom

maggiemerc: who is already facing a lot of garbage in the non-fandom area

maggiemerc: arena

fictorium: yeah, they’re not calling any het ships platonic

maggiemerc: and being silenced

Xenavirgin: @ Maggie Until GLEE??? Has everyone forgotten the mother of all lesbian fandoms, XENA??? Talk about possessive by creators and fans…but Respectful between those two groups.

chilly-flame: i think they definitely made mistakes in their response @maggie. i like what you’re saying.

ariestess: This is very true.

maggiemerc: Well I think Xena was VERY different, I mean they hired a slashfic writer for the show!

maggiemerc: but with Glee and Brittana we saw the fans demand a pairing

maggiemerc: from all of two minutes of canon

maggiemerc: and then GET WHAT THEY WANTED

Xenavirgin: And, to my knowledge, so please forgive me if I’m incorrect. But Xena is still the only sow to actually employ a popular fanfic writer to write some episodes.

maggiemerc: that’s unheard of!

ariestess: Well, there’s also the fact that Adam and Eddy don’t always seem to confer before one will spout off with something.

ariestess: tjemd, you have the next question.

fictorium: yeah, Eddy likes to cause trouble and Adam gets all the flak!

tjemd: Do you feel that actors/producers identify constructive criticism as “hate,” rather than a back-and-forth dialogue, and if so, do you find it unfair?  Also, do you think this is isolated to non-het pairings (e.g., Swan Queen)?

writetherest: agree. I think eddy answering that question was a bad move

ariestess: Just a note, I know it may seem like I’m ignoring raised hands, but I’m not.  I want to make sure everyone gets a chance to weigh in before we go to the next.

Torchi: i think that the possessive tone about characters also comes about with how we view these characters

maggiemerc: I think that it is very difficult to establish tone via Twitter

maggiemerc: and that is where most of the discussion occurs

Kayryn: @tjemd, I think it’s the tone that they use to convey their messages that’s the biggest issue

taraetoo: @lola …and Ginny gives her opinion on top of it: When the SQ question is asked, you can hear her say “Oh god”

fictorium: I think that yes, the fandom and the cast/creators do lump anything negative under ‘hate’. Which shuts things down. But then people do curse, call names etc. And that sets things back

fictorium: @tarae : yes, outright dismissal or WTFing from the cast is rude.

Otakugamer01: @tara just another reason I’m not sure I even want to see the panel

Shatterpath: yeah, no one likes to mocked/talked down to

maggiemerc: This cast and creators

chilly-flame: i think eddy and adam had no idea they were writing a lesbian love story, and they probably hate that what they wanted to do wasn’t what actually happened. so then they sound like jackasses when people don’t agree with their POV, and they make it sound like hate when people don’t agree.

maggiemerc: also has a different way of interacting with fans

maggiemerc: like they approach it in a much more old fashioned way versus, say, the cast and crew of TVD or PLL

tjemd: I don’t recognize the acronyms.

fictorium: @chilly that’s a good assessment! And they don’t seem to understand social media impact beyond the conversation they’re in.

chilly-flame: i do think in this case it’s specific to swanqueen because it is such a powerful, large fandom.

Enb0t: Pretty Little Liars

tjemd: DAnke.

Enb0t: The Vampire Diaries

BetweenLove_n_Hate: well I can almost understand Ginny’s reaction. She got a LOT of flak already for her ‘incest’ comment. It’s probably something she was worried about backfiring and low and behold it did.

tjemd: Danke, rather

maggiemerc: yes look at Ginny’s reaction

maggiemerc: even five years ago

maggiemerc: what she said would have been “acceptable”

undergroundwriter92: I think they didn’t write it with any slash pairings in mind but the actors make it look like that and so they’re a bit annoyed

maggiemerc: not appropriate obviously

Otakugamer01: that’s one way to look at Ginny’s reaction…or it could be another ‘oh god the queers are here’ type of reaction

maggiemerc: but these people are all operating about five to ten years behind the rest of Twitter

chilly-flame: yes @lola. we all have long memories and screencaptures live forever!

writetherest: @chilly I agree. and I mean, we all know that there is plenty of hate that does go on in this fandom, but to lump everything together that way is wrong

Kayryn: I think Ginny should remember she herself played a third wife in a show that was very controversial.

ariestess: tjemd, you have the next question.

ariestess: and maggie, I agree wth you re: the twitter comment

Enb0t: It is perhaps not surprising that Jared is one of the more twitter-savvy members of the cast.

tjemd: Do you believe our volume or insistency at forums, conventions, and other interactions significantly exceeds our numeric representation of the dues-paying fandom?

Otakugamer01: @Keyryn but that’s ‘acceptable’ cause it was straight

Shatterpath: I’m quite sure Once did not expect to be a gay ot-topic, but they need to grow up and remember that this isn’t the 1940s when we had to be quiet

Otakugamer01: *Kayryn

maggiemerc: @Enb0t it is not surprising at all

Kayryn: @Ota, yup, and that’s the problem.

maggiemerc: and @tjemd I was at a festival event for The Vampire Diaries

maggiemerc: and they had Julie Plec there talking about the shipping

fictorium: @tjemd I think we’re maybe even slightly underrepresented. We’re loud and numerous, but a lot of the fandom is just quietly lurking still

Shatterpath: *hot-topic

maggiemerc: and she pointed out something very interesting. which is that volume matters

maggiemerc: but that the vocal tend to be the minority

maggiemerc: in almost all instances

maggiemerc: like there are the fans who HATE the show and tweet the hate, and those who tweet the love

BetweenLove_n_Hate: Look at Supernatural. They embrace the fandom IN THE SHOW. Why couldn’t they just tip their hats and move on from the question in a respectful manner. (sigh)

maggiemerc: but most fans, do not engage to that degree

fictorium: especially on network shows, where it’s a less engaged and wider audience

undergroundwriter92: however many people who ship f/f pairings don’t want to advertise the fact that they do for their own reasons and so stay quiet

maggiemerc: Isn’t Supernatural known for queer baiting though?

Enb0t: I suspect the cast + creators simply do not know how to. They are, as mentioned, a few years behind the curve.

tjemd: As a follow-up, then, how do you recommend getting canon (or, by extension, social) representation in our respective regions of residence?

ariestess: all right, allroadsleadtoroam, you have the next question.

allroadsleadtoroam: With all the current negative politics I was wondering if a ship goes “canon” do you think it loses potential in the creative world? As in, if its staring us in the face does it take away from the communities ability to stretch their imaginations of “the possible”? And would you see this as a negetive side effect of canon relationships? (If we had canon would we have some of the AMAZING stories we have?)

Shatterpath: Go Roam!

maggiemerc: Coming from Grey’s where my ship was canon and MAJORLY canon, I think there are always gaps in the canon

ariestess: I always find that actually turning the ‘ship canon tends to kill my desire to write for it or even read for it in some cases.  There are exceptions, of course.  Plus, I fear that Adam and Eddy just won’t do it proper justice.

maggiemerc: that the fandom can fill

fictorium: I think Adam made an interesting distinction today – canon feelings vs canon relationship

chilly-flame: interesting question. i can only wonder how it would affect me–and it would probably only encourage me and MANY other fans. my first pairing was ER kim/kerry and that was canon. and wow, i was soooo into it.

Kayryn: I think it alters it, but doesn’t necessarily make a dent in the creative process

chilly-flame: i agree @maggie. there are plenty of gaps.

Kayryn: there will always be things that need clarifying and filling up

Otakugamer01: there’s always room for interpretation and exploration, especially in fic which lends itself to go where the show cannot due to budget and other limitations

fictorium: Agree with the gaps assessment too

Kayryn: or future fics, or AU fics…

chilly-flame: and rating. ;D

writetherest: @fictorium Yeah, I was interested in that distinction and how he draws it

Shatterpath: And there’s enough backstory, particularly with Emma and Regina, that we’d NEVER cover it all

ariestess: @fic: When did he say that?  Was that part of your twitter convo?  I’ve been hosting panels all day, so ignoring twitter mostly

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I think I’ll take the opposite and say yes. When a shows couple is canon I have a hard time reading or writing the fics.

undergroundwriter92: It will make some people more likely to read the fanfic, especially those new to the world of fandoms as they (well my friends) feel more comfortable with established on screen relationships

Otakugamer01: been following the twitter convo…yikes

fictorium: yeah, part of our twitter convo

Enb0t: depends on the show’s writing as well. coming from the Brittana fandom, soooooo many gaps to fill.

fictorium: he considers Hook/Emma canon because Hook said he would come back for EMma

fictorium: i.e. expressed feelings

ariestess: I’ll go catch up on your twitter convo once all is said and done.

ariestess: Well, he’s a guy, so…

writetherest: but no E/R because it was only actions

fictorium: guys have written some of the deepest love stories I’ve ever read though

Otakugamer01: Emma also said she’d always save Regina…but we all collectively imagined that

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I like Brittana from Glee, but I don’t read their fics. I read Faberry and Pezberry. I love Calzona but I don’t read the fics.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: that angry face WAS NOT supposed to be there.

Torchi: actions speak better than words though

fictorium: I think I like to have ~something~ to go on. Then often times fic and vids will do it even better than the show could

Enb0t: i am literally unable to separate fic!Brittana from show!Brittana because the show was so awful my head had to adapt. i suspect it will be similar for OUAT, or is.

writetherest: so canon action but not a canon relationship. and I must have inferred it that way.

fictorium: like Mulder/Scully or Castle/Beckett – the dancing around part is very inspiring for fic

fictorium: and it felt like SQ was in that kind of phase for the past 2 seasons

maggiemerc: What’s funny about Mulder/Scully

maggiemerc: is they were subtext for eight years

maggiemerc: they weren’t canon until the end of season 8!

Otakugamer01: i’m not sticking around for eight years

Gin Akasarahsmom: the castle/beckett relationship is great.. and done well.. because it doesn’t interfere with the show/cases…

writetherest: but they inferred the Hook/Emma thing as emotional so… again, it’s their vision vs ours and what’s acceptable is theirs

Gin Akasarahsmom: the bones/booth thing is just wrong and required character assasination in order to get Bones with Booth

maggiemerc: Yes @writetherest, absolutely

ariestess: It’s clear that there’s something that LP and JMo are doing that indicates more than just “we’re Henry’s two moms doing whatever to keep him safe and happy”, whether it’s intentional or not.  But this is another case of the cast/crew adding ni things that the showrunners don’t intend.

fictorium: I can stick around for 7 or 8 years, easily. But those creators also confirmed they wanted that subtext to be read

maggiemerc: well television is collaborative

maggiemerc: but OUAT is run by two guys who don’t always come off as so collaborative

chilly-flame: i also think lana’s chemistry with everything has sort of forced SQ out into the open!

writetherest: so I didn’t expect to see them making out, but keep the subtext and let us enjoy that

Enb0t: actors, directors, even the network has a say in the end.

Otakugamer01: @Lola you mean chris carter from x-files right?

ariestess: @maggie: That’s so true!  It’s a case of the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing with them oftentimes.

ariestess: sobeyondrepair, you have the next question.

maggiemerc: well the bonus is if chemisty is “unintentional”

sobeyondrepair: I’ve heard that maybe with the giant SQ implosion happening the fandom may start to dwindle as people stop watching — what are your guys’ plans for continuing with your work and do you picture yourselves able to stick around even if you stop watching the show?

maggiemerc: then it probably won’t stop

Torchi: unless they force themselves to stop the chemistry

BetweenLove_n_Hate: They are the men who promised conclusions to Lost’s many open story lines. Never got them. I’ve always been iffy with them, and this just was another nail in the coffin already laid out and presented that they’d do something I wasn’t expecting.

ariestess: Good question!  As long as I have a Regina muse [and I have several, tbh] giving me ideas, I’ll keep writing, even if I stop watching the show.

fictorium: or separate them/put other relationships in more focus

writetherest: I’ll probably stick around for a while because I’ve got a bunch of things in the works.

maggiemerc: @sobeyondrepair I’m in the show for the long haul. I actually started writing Swan Queen fic because I found the text so damn hetero and wanted to queer the heck out of it

maggiemerc: and plan to continue exploding rainbows on the page until the show ends

fictorium: I’ll keep writing even without watching. Unless I just run out of stories I want to tell about them

chilly-flame: it’s not going to affect me. i just use the show as inspiration for writing, and i hope other writeres do the same. they could kill one of my characters and i’ll still write. (see my past history with SG1!!)

writetherest: and I’ll probably still keep up with the show to see what I can play with/fix…

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I could stick around the fandom even without watching the show because I like the characters the fics and the fandom have created more than the show’s version anyway

writetherest: @chilly and @lola Yeah. agree.

Otakugamer01: oh god SG1…i miss you Dr. Janet Fraiser…

ariestess: As Shatterpath has said to me in the past, there will always be backstory to work with, even if we ignore the SB stuff.

chilly-flame: I KNOW @ota!

Shatterpath: I gotta get back to my epic for this!

writetherest: I’m not gonna stop shipping them, basically

undergroundwriter92: And AU’s can do whatever they feel like

fictorium: and I tend to ship in my own social circle anyway, and through fic. Doesn’t really need the show or ‘official’ spaces

chilly-flame: i am so glad to hear so many folks saying this. i am thrilled actually.

writetherest: I’ll just be shipping them in Tif World which I already basically do

Otakugamer01: TiF?

writetherest: @lola yes, exactly

ariestess: I have a stack of 20 single tweet SQ ficlets to expand out, not to mention everything else on my to do list, so I’m around for a while…

writetherest: @ota Tif is my name.

allroadsleadtoroam: I think the fact that we’ve written OC stuff says that the show has it’s limitations anyway & so continuing SQ with or without watching would be just as inspired.

Otakugamer01: oh


fictorium: yeah, if I write all my current AUs through to end I’ve got about a year of material easy

ariestess: That’s so true!  Sometimes the OCs can be more interesting than the canon characters.

ariestess: I <3 the Piper. I’m just sayin’…

allroadsleadtoroam: Yep.

fictorium: And I think we can ship without necessarily endorsing or promoting their show for them, those of us who are angry

Otakugamer01: so the plan is ship and write, but don’t give them ratings by watching…at least that’s my plan

writetherest: @lola I think that’s true. Especially when what’s written is better than the show.

ariestess: @fic: I agree with you on that.  I think the fanfic is going strong, so there’s no need to stop it just because TPTB won’t make it canon.

allroadsleadtoroam: I think doing a non canon ship justice in writing actually “sticks it to the show” more than anything. In a positive way.

ariestess: I’m almost tempted to do an OUaT femslash exchange now…

fictorium: exactly, @Otaku

writetherest: @ariestess ohhhhh yes! that’d be amazing

maggiemerc: I always think of Star Trek and its fans

maggiemerc: where they AGRESSIVELY queer the text and create these enormous fan works

maggiemerc: inspite of what they’re given by the show’s creators

ariestess: @write: It might even be fun to do it in conjunction with the Fragments of Sappho challenge I already run.

maggiemerc: it almost functions as an act of rebellion you know?

fictorium: @maggie that’s a good way of looking at it – channel the bad feelings

Otakugamer01: As god is my witness i will finish my fic…even though i have to rewrite a huge chunk out of it, eating nutella i shall never go hungry again…

chilly-flame: i love that idea @maggie.


writetherest: @ariestess I don’t know about that but sounds good!

maggiemerc: particularly in something like OUAT where this huge femslash fandom has provided a safe space for people

ariestess: @write: It’s a femslash challenge based on prompts from Sappho’s poetry.

maggiemerc: destroying it to spite the creators just harms the fans further

ariestess: Sagehawk, you have the next question.

fictorium: MOAR HOMO

Sagehawk: After what happened at comic con, what do you think SWEN should do as a response, if anything? Do we campaign for SQ or try and at least get Lana’s character in a f/f pairing? Or should we just not trust the creators of this show with our stories anymore?

sobeyondrepair: that method didn’t end up working very well with glee..

fictorium: I think they’ve made it clear they’re not inviting fan contribution or suggestion. They want praise for their vision or nothing, thanks.

ariestess: Honestly, right now, I’m torn.  While I am all about the vocal minority, there’s also the idea that too much could make it worse.

Kayryn: No campaigns, they know we’re here.

Enb0t: (granted, most things did not end up working well with glee)

maggiemerc: seeing as the creators are so old school in how the interact with fans

writetherest: To me, I think they’ve been very honest that they’re not going there with SW and that’s what I want, not something else. so I like Maggie’s idea of just doing it better and ignoring them

maggiemerc: I’m pretty content to be old school too

writetherest: SQ

maggiemerc: MOAR HOMO

fictorium: and yeah, I don’t want them to reconsider or not do something out of spite/feeling hated

Otakugamer01: they want us silent…ok my TV and the rating it generates will be silent when they air

undergroundwriter92: I think they will have to have a f/f pairing eventually as the whole aim of the program is to have a character that everyone can connect to

Enb0t: (oh god what have i done.)

maggiemerc: twenty years from now I’d love it if OUAT were remembered for it’s HUGE Swan Queen contigent rather than for the contents of the show

chilly-flame: i don’t think it would be beneficial. the brass at abc isn’t going say, “hey, there are hoards of lesbians who want a storyline, make regina a gay.” they would be the only people who would really be able to have any impact at all. (and who knows how much.)

Kayryn: They don’t want to deal with it and I think that if we aggravate Horowitz and Kitsis by campaigns, or by demands, they’ll just push Emma and Regina into the arms of men

Otakugamer01: too late @Kayryn

maggiemerc: well that also begs the question @Kayryn

writetherest: And stop writing scenes with them altogether which won’t help

maggiemerc: what right do we have to make demands?

ariestess: I don’t think they’ll actually do a lesbian or f/f thing.  They just say an LGBT character, which means probably a gay man.  Because that’s “safer” and not as “edgy”.

Kayryn: @Maggie, we dont

maggiemerc: like the social contract between a fandom and a property

maggiemerc: is rapidly evolving now days

maggiemerc: these guys are quite content to employ and older and more rigid contract

Otakugamer01: i can just about guarantee that it will be a gay white male that will only appear in one episode never to be heard from again

Kayryn: yeah, I don’t believe we have the right to make demands, and I think we should be grateful for these wonderful characters that have inspired us

fictorium: like, in my original writing I wouldn’t like people saying ‘you must do this’. But at the same time I listen to feedback when something isn’t working

maggiemerc: from the film system rather than plays or television you know?

Xenavirgin: This is an excerpt from my tumblr about the subject and the need for respect to and FROM the show creators.  So as a SwanQueen shipper, no I don’t expect my vision to suddenly become canon, but yes I do expect what I have seen and taken from the show to be, one, acknowledged and two, not dismissed and slapped down by the creators. That doesn’t mean I think everyone sees or appreciates the same things in the show, god what a boring world that would be. I’d just like these youngsters to take a leaf out the Xena book and have a little class and patience with their fans. Even the ones who come on strong and are in your face, and are indeed Fanatics.

ariestess: @fic: I agree with you on that.  I would welcome suggestions with the caveat that people making them understand that I don’t HAVE to accept them.  And that’s how it is with Adam and Eddy.

maggiemerc: I know personally, for me, the frustration with them comes less from their decision to go their own way with the story

ariestess: Even though I hate WHAT they’re saying and HOW they’re saying it, I respect them for actually saying it.  They don’t have to engage with fans at all.

maggiemerc: and more from them being two straight white guys

maggiemerc: with all the power

maggiemerc: and no desire to do things differently

fictorium: yeah, there’s a privilege that comes through in every exchange that grates

fictorium: especially when Adam plays the victim as soon as anyone expresses negative thoughts

Otakugamer01: that’s the difference @Lola, you take feedback and criticism and try to see if it sparks something…they would prefer we all keep out mouths shut because it was unintended therefore not worth the effort to see if it can work

Xenavirgin: I’m sorry AJ, I have to disagree with that statement. Particularly in a fantasy show aimed at the FAN type they jolly well do have to engage with the fans.

sobeyondrepair: lol, #NOH8 poor adam

fictorium: and even in comments to my fic – people see parallels and metaphors that I didn’t fully intend. I think that’s a beautiful thing. I encourage it. I won’t necessarily change the story, but I recognise that the author is only the start of the process

maggiemerc: @fictorium exactly

maggiemerc: storytelling is collaborative

writetherest: agree with that @lola

maggiemerc: we enter a contract with directors, actors, and audiences

maggiemerc: we give and take and push and pull

fictorium: if you refuse to accept that people may understand something differently (based on their experience, etc) then you shouldn’t be offering it up to other people

ariestess: Storywriting is absolutely collaborative!

Enb0t: right. i’m still waiting for that scene with Regina riding Red into battle, maggiemerc.

ariestess: tjemd, you have the next question.

undergroundwriter92: @fic, I agree people often raise points I’ve never thought about but that allow me to go more in depth with the story even though it is still my story

maggiemerc: I would LOVE to see how A&E reacted to doing, say, a play

writetherest: and my phone is about to die plus Nathan times so… must leave you. But keep rocking on y’all!

tjemd: Do you think that f/f fandoms around OUaT have sprung up as individual PoVs, or rather as organic responses to how actors’ chemistries have interacted with each other?

fictorium: @underground it has actually inspired me too, on parts I was stuck on or hadn’t fully fleshed out in the planning

maggiemerc: @tjemd it is absolutely organic

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I think it’s the actors chemistry/interactions that have fueled the growth in this fandom.

tjemd: (i.e., “unintended” and “whoops?”)

tjemd: )

ariestess: Totally organic.

fictorium: a mixture of both – SQ because of the chemistry, right from the start. Others have been more because SQ doesn’t fit and people want an alternative

maggiemerc: somewhere in the middle of season 2 I was worried that I was shipping all these ladies together

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I think Red Beauty had that instant chemistry from the start. And Sleeping Warrior grew on me

maggiemerc: like every lady on the show

fictorium: but then when they develop the chemistry becomes more apparent

chilly-flame: i think they storyline they gave us would have been very easily transitioned into true love by the showrunners were this a straight couple. the chemistry just cemented that.

maggiemerc: I had this fear that I was just shipping all ladies on all shows together you know?

pancakeshio: I didn´t like his tweet about Emma saving Regina from the fire being subtext. What is text and what is subtext then?

ariestess: @chilly: I absolutely agree.  That’s going to be one of the chapters in the nonfic/meta/essay book I’m doing about the women of OUaT.

maggiemerc: but then I watched a couple of shows where women pass the Bechdel test and I don’t have an urge to ship them

ariestess: Whenever I get it started.

fictorium: @chilly well said

sobeyondrepair: if there’s a penis it’s canon

maggiemerc: with OUAT there’s just a lot of chemistry floating around

ariestess: Wait. Adam/Eddy said the fire thing was subtext, but they’re not intending a relationship there?  My god, they ARE the two idiots, aren’t they?

chilly-flame: very cool @ariestess

ariestess: jenrind, you have the next question

Nikkeh: what is the bechdel test?

Otakugamer01: yep two idiots

ariestess: @chilly: I’m hoping it works out properly.

tjemd: lol

Enb0t: do 2 women characters in a show/movie talk to each other about something other than a man -> the test

Enb0t: it’s a simple benchmark

Otakugamer01: very VERY few movies pass that test

ariestess: @nikkeh: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bechdel_test

Nikkeh: oh! ok thank you.

Otakugamer01: or at least the ones i’m initially interested in

allroadsleadtoroam: But, in the show runners defense, why can’t a woman save a woman from a fire without it being romantic? (Call me Devil’s Advocate)

fictorium: @allroads because usually it isn’t read as romantic

fictorium: @allroads this is exceptional because of the chemistry

shikabanemai: personally, i don’t think it’s about whether or not it can or cannot be romantic, it’s that he then turned around and claimed captain swan moments were romantic (as though they cannot be platonic, must be romantic)

ariestess: @allroads: Actually, you’ve got a point there.  It doesn’t have to be romantic.  But if they’re saying subtext…

Otakugamer01: by their own rules i.e. the rules of TRUE LOVE which if used as a check list Swan Queen has passed with flying colors

chilly-flame: they are the ultimate screwball pair. argue argue argue KISS

Alsike: the captain swan moments were creepy.

fictorium: there’s some Hepburn-Tracy to their dynamic, for sure

Kayryn: @allroads, she can, but then when she also looks at her like she’s undressing her, saves her again, defends her and has great chemistry with her, it’s something we ship

ariestess: BetweenLove_n_Hate, you have the next question.

LZClotho: I can’t believe I almost missed this. But I have an excuse! I was writing! I’ve finished 14 & 15 of Your Move. They will be posted this week.

fictorium: YOUR MOVE? OMG YAY!

Shatterpath: *shoots creepy Hook*

LZClotho: (sorry to interrupt)

ariestess: Hey there, LZC!

chilly-flame: hiya!

Enb0t: hmm was jenrind supposed to ask something? *squints*

LZClotho: so we are discussing chemistry? yes, yes, everyone gets questions!

BetweenLove_n_Hate: So I was wondering what everyone’s favorite Swan Queen moment was/is? (From fic or the show)

maggiemerc: Jenrind come baaaaack

Enb0t: Jenrind come hooooooome

Enb0t: (sorry.)

undergroundwriter92: @betweenLove I generally just like all the marriages in fics

ariestess: Good question!  I love the “I know her” bit, among others.  And “I invited her”.

chilly-flame: on screen: i havent done a lot of rewatching of S2, so it’s gotta be the mine. my eyebrows almost crawled off my face.

ariestess: In fic?  Depends on the fic. LOL

Otakugamer01: you can be damn sure that if hook said the same thing but looked as ridiculous as in the disney toon he wouldn’t be considered

chilly-flame: i liked that outside scene of the diner when regina was leaving. whatever that episode was.

Otakugamer01: as a love interest

fictorium: I love the ‘she’s not dying’

ariestess: That’s another good one.

allroadsleadtoroam: Answering the door with no pants…

fictorium: and inevitably, THE BENCH

ariestess: wolvie_dk, you have the next question.

Otakugamer01: hehe “your Henry’s birthmother?” goofy look on her face “hi.”

wolvie_dk: Most stories take place in either our world or FTL. Which do you prefer to read and/or write?

chilly-flame: lol @roam no pants YES

maggiemerc: Can I even comment? Because I think almost all of my stuff has NOT been set on earth

fictorium: our world. I’m not great at FTL. I think it makes my writing tone sound arch. I get way more British somehow.

LZClotho: otakugamer: I was totally sucked int SQ with that exchange too.

Kayryn: As long as it’s well written, I’ll take SB and FTL, either/or.

chilly-flame: i guess i prefer to write storybrooke. i think the amount of stuff i’ve written in FTL pales in comparison, although i do enjoy reading both.

maggiemerc: I do tend to find Storybrooke more “canon” feeling

fictorium: also I just don’t like thinking about the practicalities of FTL. I like indoor plumbing, okay?

LZClotho: chilly: I also prefer Storybrooke. To me that’s the place where all the consequences are really coming to fruition. Everything else is backstory.

LZClotho: fictorium: plumbing! Yay!

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I like writing in both, though my longer length fics now are two for two with where it takes place. I adore reading stories in FTL

maggiemerc: @LZClotho this is VERY true

Otakugamer01: you know i haven’t really read a lot of AU’s that don’t happen in some form of FTL or Storybrooke(earth)  where are the space or other science fiction ones?

ambach: there’s The Signal

BetweenLove_n_Hate: @Fic, YES, indoor plumbing. And internet or phones!

maggiemerc: does steampunk count as scifi or fantasy @otakugamer01?

taraetoo: @lola actually that’s what I like in your FTL stories. loved your “settings and second takes” for this tone!

BetweenLove_n_Hate: having a rider leave with a message is a pain because I’ve had to come up with ways to get around the fact that they wouldn’t arrive for days or weeks at a time

Otakugamer01: i think so but is it still storybrooke?

LZClotho: OUAT sort of has its own AU with the whole dichotomy. If you go space or sci-fi, you go uber, I think. Those have to be very carefully done to preserve the dynamics of the archetypes.

maggiemerc: FUTURE Storybrooke

Otakugamer01: eh i’ll take it! 😛


LZClotho: steampunk is classified as a subgenre of science fiction.

Otakugamer01: thanks @LZ i tend to get those two confused sometimes

ariestess: I don’t do many FTL stories, and don’t have Emma there so far at all in mine.

fictorium: I’m going to have to leave you to it, everyone. But thanks for letting me ramble at you  

ariestess: michelle_2011, you have the next question.

michelle_2011: If you talked about it already, sorry I missed it. Has anyone read the Titan Once Upon a Time Magazines 1 & 2? If so what do you think about either or both issues?

BetweenLove_n_Hate: bye! Thanks for rambling with us, not at us.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: and I haven’t read either. Should they be something I look into?

ariestess: Aww, fic’s leaving us?

maggiemerc: I have not read it. Are those the magazines with Emma and Regina on the cover?

LZClotho: the backstory and character information is useful for canon-consistency, but I was not impressed with them. Nice pictures though.


ariestess: I have the one with Emma and Regina on the cover, but haven’t read it yet.

michelle_2011: Yes

fictorium: good distinction! Sorry, some apartment chaos tonight, I thought I’d get two hours free of it but alas! Bye, everyone! x

ariestess: sobeyondrepair, you have the next question.

sobeyondrepair: what was worse and why — a) hook’s sword rapey moment, b) emma’s love confession to neal, c) manhattan

LZClotho: oh my god…

ariestess: D] All of the above

sobeyondrepair: hahaha right

BetweenLove_n_Hate: Emma’s love confession to Neal

LZClotho: all were horrid!

Kayryn: b) Emma’s love confession

BetweenLove_n_Hate: because they spent so few moments of screen time together it was all just forced

LZClotho: but yes, Emma’s confession to Neal was just the worst.

LZClotho: betweenLove: that’s it exactly.

maggiemerc: I actually don’t mind Hook because Jesus Christ how over the top can one be? And I kind of like Manhattan? But Emma’s love confession needed WAY more development to work for me

pancakeshio: a,b,c

ariestess: I can handle Emma’s confession to Neal, actually.  In the moment, it fit for her.  You could see that scared little girl afraid of being abandoned again.

ariestess: Of the three, that was my least WTF moment.

Otakugamer01: D. All of the above

maggiemerc: dems fighting words @ariestess

LZClotho: the dialogue was ‘

Shatterpath: now, girls, no fighting

LZClotho: scared little girl’ but I never saw it in Jen’s acting

ariestess: @maggie: I know, I know.  But he was her first love.  I’m also a died in the wool StablePrincess girl, too, so….

allroadsleadtoroam: The love confession cheapened Emma 100%. She spent the ENTIRE episode defending that her actions were not out of jealousy & then with those few words became cliche & weak imho.

Shatterpath: few of the cast has really been allowed to act in a long time

maggiemerc: see I intellectually got the confession

maggiemerc: But I wanted more development between them before we got to it

Otakugamer01: he was still freakin’ convinced of Tamara’s innocence all up till the end, then it’s suddenly ‘I Love You’s’ are you fucking kidding me?

maggiemerc: so when it showed up I was just feeling embarrassed for everyone on screen

LZClotho: maggiemerc: exactly, would have sold better.

ariestess: Yes, intellectually I get it.  And I think that’s where I chose to focus.  I had a lot of issues about the latter half of S2 and I wanted to keep my love alive, as it were.

Enb0t: not having a confession would have sold better. but they decided to beat us over the head with it instead of having the moment play out.

LZClotho: season 2 was seriously jekyll/hyde for me. Geez.

ariestess: I equate that love confession with Regina going back under Mommy’s wing.  Same type of situation re: feeling needed/loved/not abandoned.

maggiemerc: yeah both are rushed

maggiemerc: I just want to sit someone down and tell them to take a breath

Otakugamer01: i still feel embarrassed and cringe at the memory of that scene

ariestess: Well, and I think had they not had the confession, people wouldn’t be all “OMG! Nealfire’s dead!” then be “surprised” when he was alive again.

LZClotho: OMG. yes, Regina’s turning to Mommy dearest. Urgh.

Enb0t: i understand this plot point but guys, you can’t just make stuff happen. like Snow overhearing Cora and Regina in the woods randomly.

pancakeshio: I skipped it lol

LZClotho: *covers face and cries in anguish*

maggiemerc: honestly I would have loved if Miller’s Daughter hadn’t come until the finale


maggiemerc: then we would have had the first half of season 3 to develop Neal

maggiemerc: Snow’s hearing is AMAZING

allroadsleadtoroam: She talks to animals so…

maggiemerc: oh my god

LZClotho: LOL’

maggiemerc: that is my new fanwank

ariestess: In a lot of ways, Snow’s SUCH a MarySue!

maggiemerc: the animals told her!

chilly-flame: sorry @all brb

ariestess: And Otakugamer01, you have the next question.

maggiemerc: you can’t undo it. Snow knows everything in Storybrook because of animals

Otakugamer01: anyone else feel that the creators got tired of developing the characters and changed/rushed things to got to Neverland?

pancakeshio: yup me! Emma was so cool in S1

ariestess: AND Meghan Ory confirmed it.

maggiemerc: You can see the exact point in season 2

LZClotho: yes, characterization arcs were sacrificed when they shifted gears midseason to get to Neverland. (Adam said this at one point)

maggiemerc: where they got permission for Neverland

BetweenLove_n_Hate: what did Meghan Ory confirm?

maggiemerc: and went full tilt

LZClotho: it was why they “lost” the entire extra storyline for Ruby.

ariestess: It’s why I don’t honestly put a lot of stock in what A&E say because they’re like sugar-riddled ADD children.

allroadsleadtoroam: Fetch quests=Easier than actual writing.

LZClotho: suddenly characters had to be in certain places for the chess game, whether or not they were capable of moving that way in one move or not.

ariestess: @Between: She confirmed that Adam & Eddy dropped existing planned stories to gear up for Neverland, including stuff for her.  That’s why she went off to do her other series.

LZClotho: ariestess: I agree

Kayryn: What would you like to see on the show that you think would be realistic for them to show/create? A scene or a part of a character’s history?

sobeyondrepair: o so it wasn’t bae specifically, just neverland that killed ruby’s storyline?

LZClotho: yes

ariestess: It was Neverland that killed it, not Nealfire specifically.

Enb0t: and the Cora storyline as well, i’m guessing.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: Well they lost a gem in her character and her as an actress.


BetweenLove_n_Hate: The Cora storyline could have been EPIC

cursesuponyou: It seems they’ve changed a lot of what they intended to do. The Neal/Emma/Hook triangle was originally supposed to be a rhombus. Their plans for Cora were supposed to be enacted in the final season, as was everything involving Neal/”Bae.” They skipped ahead because they were running out of material, in my opinion. The whole plot arc with Tamara/Greg and the interruption of the outside world is something you’d expect to see in a final season, too.

LZClotho: kayryn: what I’d like to see is a storyline in Storybrooke, where everyone has to deal with the fact that they can’t/won’t go back. The characters have to resolve this vis a vis being able to move forward in interactions and relationships (romantic or otherwise)

BetweenLove_n_Hate: was it fear? They lost 3 million viewers between season one and two

ariestess: magicalzonbi, you have the next question.

LZClotho: by sending the main cast to Neverland, where again they can be “fish out of water” and “in the moment” there is no dealing with their issues. it gets put off because “now” is not convenient… we’re running from Ogres, mermaids, giants, Shadows, whatnot.

ariestess: @LZC: I like working on plots like that, so would love to see it in the show.

magicalzonbi: Ty. I’ve been working on a novel since femslash week back in Jan. While I’m happy that the fandom is able to continue to grow regardless of canon support. I was wondering how many people would be interested in giving it a read? It is inclusive of GSM and PoC characters that were ALL intended. And I’d like to make sure that we as a fandom remembers that there are other options out there too.

Kayryn: can you imagine the queue behind Archie’s door when everyone finally has the time to deal with everything they’ve been through?

Enb0t: i’m impressed there aren’t more people getting drunk and passing out.

LZClotho: betweenLove: by the way, I don’t think it was fear… if it was it was a stupid answer to that fear. If you lose viewership you go back to the original formula that was working… which was “locked room” (town) cat and mouse-style mystery. Just up the game with Rumple being the cat chased by mice (perhaps)

ariestess: Oh, Archie would be able to buy and build a house to rival Regina’s mansion from all the work he’d have.

magicalzonbi: To summarize: A woman from a village finds herself in the middle of a political battle between her country and one that wishes to colonize it and erase their magical culture. I’d appreciate the support.

ariestess: wolvie_dk, you have the next question.

wolvie_dk: Not to be all heavy and serious and stuff, but I’ve read a couple fics, where Henry’s father was one of Emma’s fosterdads. With Regina being practically forced to marry Leopold and, presumably, sleeping with him, could she be considered a rape victim?

maggiemerc: Running from this question

maggiemerc: because there are some key moments missing from Regina’s backstory

Shatterpath: the shit even canon Regina has been through….

maggiemerc: that would make it difficult to determine

LZClotho: wolvie: yes, and the writers continue to whitewash that away vigorously.

Kayryn: @Wolvie I consider Regina to be a rape victim

ariestess: Oh, that’s a tough question.  I have always considered her a rape and abuse victim.

Kayryn: she wasn’t the one who agreed to marry a man at least twice/three times? her age

ariestess: The abuse coming from Leopold, Cora, even Snow and Henry Sr.

maggiemerc: it all comes down to whether she could leave Leopold’s kingdom after her mother went through the portal

BetweenLove_n_Hate: There is a lot of this seen on tumblr and I’m not wearing rose colored glasses when I think of King Leopold and what it meant for a girl as young as Regina to marry an older man, a King. So yes, I consider her a rape victim.

pancakeshio: Leopold raped her right? it wasn’t consent sex

maggiemerc: if she stays of her own choice to manipulate him, as the show suggests then no

Otakugamer01: within the particular story you’ve read, yes, historically, yes, most likely on the show…i doubt that they’d go there cause their view on good and evil is still to black and white for me

maggiemerc: but if she was forced to stay than absoluelt yes

LZClotho: maggie: if she could leave, yes, there is a question why she didn’t. I think Cora’s enchantment remained in effect.

pancakeshio: she learned to use that to manipulate him thou

ariestess: Well, there’s no actual canon proof that he slept with Regina.  Reality says that he did, but they haven’t said it in canon.

maggiemerc: right that’s the thing

maggiemerc: was it up or not

pancakeshio: I don´t think she did at the begining

maggiemerc: because there’s no proof one way or the other

Kayryn: @maggie, she wasn’t allowed to leave in the beginning

LZClotho: (I use this to this day actually, it’s a major point in my development of how the barrier works in storybrooke for Your Move)

maggiemerc: but it has a HUGE impact

Kayryn: she wasn’t able to leave until the king was dead

Shatterpath: she was emotionally.mentally abused at the very least

LZClotho: the enchantment was “can’t leave unles the king is with you” no caveat about alive or dead.

ariestess: @LZC: Oh, I hadn’t thought about that for the town barrier.  So, in other words, would both Regina and Rumple [since he created the curse itself AFAWK] have to die for it to break?

BetweenLove_n_Hate: because she says she trapped to the genie/Sydney, but was that all acting or was she really that desperate to get out?

chilly-flame: i would agree that she is a victim, but i think the show made some mistakes in that regard. i never was able to put the regina who killed rumpel’s apprentice into a proper canon timeline for waiting so long to off leopold

maggiemerc: @chilly_frame YES

maggiemerc: we are missing a BIG chunk of Regina’s story

chilly-flame: (this is repeat reading from me, which i apologize for, but COME ON)

ariestess: @chilly: The Regina who killed Rumpel’s apprentice is very OOC to me.

LZClotho: ariestess: simple answer: yes

Otakugamer01: there’s still so much to learn about her backstory

ariestess: alinaandalion, you have the next question.

alinaandalion: How do all of you feel that Snow would realistically relate to Swan Queen?  Taking into account all of her history with Regina and also her position as Emma’s mother who would hopefully want to see her daughter happy?  And how do you think Charming would feel about Swan Queen as well?

chilly-flame: like, she killed someone for no reason! no need to wait 10 years to do it.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: we’re missing a concrete timline for FTL in general.

pancakeshio: why did she kill the apprentice? I don´t remember

maggiemerc: it is frustracting though that such a major issue could be left open to interpretation

ariestess: @pancake: She took the girl’s heart and crushed it.

Enb0t: why? because she was in the way.

Otakugamer01: it was right after the fake attempt at resurrecting Daniel and she was desperate

Enb0t: and…. yeah. oh and Daniel’s DEEEEEEEAD.

chilly-flame: i’ve written a couple of different versions of this–some when snow accepts (I think I have, at least), and some when snow is absolutely livid.

LZClotho: realistically I think Snow would be okay with SwanQueen, because I don’t see it developing anything but slowly as both women have a lot to get through to get there emotionally together, and Snow’s relationship with Regina and Emma would naturally also progress with that same time.

maggiemerc: I think Snow would be confused more than anything else

ariestess: I’m of two minds re: Snow and Swan Queen.

chilly-flame: david tends to be more interested in placating snow than really dealing with his daughter and regina in my brain. i think he’d just accept it sort of but never really be happy about it.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I almost feel like I go back and forth on that question. Sometimes I feel like Snow would be accepting of it because she’d realize all Regina’s ever wanted is to be happy and Emma makes her happy, while David is the one who would be against it and forbid them from being together. Then other times I feel David would be more understanding and Snow relentless in her need to break them apart.

ariestess: @chilly: David has ALWAYS been like that.  He has NO real leadership skills/qualities.  He does what Snow wants.

chilly-flame: i would have to agree with that!

BetweenLove_n_Hate: David is a bully.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: plain and simple

pancakeshio: he´s snow pet haha

maggiemerc: David is underdeveloped

maggiemerc: he was the tops in season 1

allroadsleadtoroam: Seeing as David wasn’t supposed to live after the pilot…not shocked that they have no idea wtf to do with him.

Otakugamer01: maybe the answer would lie somewhere in between wanting happiness for them and not sure if she or they can accept it

Shatterpath: DAvid is useless arm candy. Which is a shame, because he had some good moments

BetweenLove_n_Hate: he wasn’t supposed to LIVE?

LZClotho: “I will not take parenting advice from a man who put his daughter in a box and shipped her to Maine!” (best line of the season!)

allroadsleadtoroam: No.

chilly-flame: lol love that line!

pancakeshio: best line!

Otakugamer01: yes! that line!

BetweenLove_n_Hate: Of everyone, Regina and Granny are the ONLY two people to have raised a child.

LZClotho: (and for me another indication of Swan Queen. Why else would Regina think it was terrible of the Charmings to do that to Emma?)

alinaandalion: @maggie Exactly. David was an awesomely developed character and then he just faded in the background.  Which was so sad because Emma is very much her father’s daughter.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: So that the Charmings think they’ll be better at it, is fucking ridiculous

ariestess: That’s right! David was supposed to die in the pilot.

alinaandalion: @maggie To clarify, in S1.  Not S2.

pancakeshio: I think the same happened to Emma on S2, what happened to David

LZClotho: So i don’t think they really knew who his “character” was supposed to be.

maggiemerc: you know what we never got all season

maggiemerc: a moment where we see David struggle with being a parent

LZClotho: hence the “my real name is David” eye-rolling line!

LZClotho: WTF?

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I never liked David in the first season and I learned to despise him in the second.

maggiemerc: we see Snow struggle sort of at the beginning of the season

pancakeshio: I don´t like MM and David, I sort of like snow thou

maggiemerc: but David is just there twaddling about

Otakugamer01: there’s nothing “charming” about a man who manhandles a woman

Enb0t: granted, that name was had its canon origins in sarcasm.

Otakugamer01: i want to see/read that he tries that again and gets a swift kick to the balls

Shatterpath: I did like that, the sarcastic nickname

ariestess: MM was a mousy wallflower. S1 Snow was badass.  S2 “we are both” Snow vacillates between good and bad.  What sucks is that she’s not really badass!Snow, she’s young girl!Snow

LZClotho: ifCharming had died in the pilot, no twin story, no James/David, no subplot for George…(because there’d be no reason to flash back to those days without a character “waking up” to his past life.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: except when she’s firing those arrows into a tree listening to rock music

maggiemerc: one of my biggest issues with season 2

maggiemerc: is we spend so much time running Regina through the ringer

maggiemerc: we never get to “air out” these characterizations

ariestess: @between: True.  She had moments of badass!Snow, but not enough.

maggiemerc: of all these suddenly merged people

alinaandalion: @ariestess I think that’s the best assessment of S2 Snow I’ve seen.  And it’s really frustrating because she basically became all of her weakest and worst characteristics and all her strength was sacrificed.

LZClotho: maggiemerc… to boot, they do it in hardly defining <2 minutes bursts.

ariestess: Well, you also note that Regina’s redemption was ONLY while Snow was in FTL.  Because this show is all about Snow’s manpain.

ariestess: I mean, Snow’s life.

maggiemerc: but it wasn’t actually

Enb0t: i liked MM and S1 Snow. And then S2 came and we got like… someone else who lacked the likeable characteristics of the S1 versions.

LZClotho: nod, very true

chilly-flame: i do wish they’d focus more on character than action. they are so interested in moving the plot along that they don’t spend a lot of time on development.

maggiemerc: this season was all about Regina’s pain

pancakeshio: I do like the episode with snow and rasta!Regina

LZClotho: Regina’s redemptive arc ends the minute Snow returns.

maggiemerc: Snow was a very minor character until she offed Cora

maggiemerc: which was a shame

pancakeshio: S2 Regina reminded me of Quinn Fabray on S3

Shatterpath: S2 was rushed and made so much fail

ariestess: And I’ll give props to Ginny and the writers because Snow offing Cora made me hate the character completely.

maggiemerc: @pancakeshio YES

LZClotho: chilly: I agree with you. More character-driven interactions, less plot-driven.

ariestess: alinaandalion, you have the next question

alinaandalion: How do all of you feel about how Snow killing Cora or just Cora’s storyline in general was handled by the show?

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I was disappointed

LZClotho: good timing!

chilly-flame: wasted.

Nikkeh: terrible

pancakeshio: they killed the best villain ever

Shatterpath: definately wasted

chilly-flame: she should have been the ultimate big bad.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I really was looking for more with Cora then what they did. They had such potential with her and they squandered it.

Nikkeh: oh wasted!

pancakeshio: after that the religious cult was boring

Otakugamer01: wasted opportunity

maggiemerc: I loved it, but hated how rushed portions of it were

ariestess: Cora’s potential was wasted.

LZClotho: yes, I agree with the sentiment. It was a very wasted arc.

maggiemerc: though Miller’s Daughter is the standout episode of the season for me

chilly-flame: she should have come and gone, always there lurking in wait to reemerge.

Shatterpath: and we’re STILL stuck with freaking Rumpel…

Enb0t: Rose McGowan was great.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: my main problem with how they killed her, mainly is that Regina inadvertently did it and by Snow’s hand, BUT

pancakeshio: I wish she was brought back to life, somehow

chilly-flame: i think the performances were stellar, but she was just so good as a character with so many implications for many people involved

Nikkeh: can i get a refund on rumple and get cora back instead

ariestess: All right, we have only 5 minutes left in this panel.  I would like to thank the panelists and our attendees for a really freaking awesome panel!

chilly-flame: yes @ nikkeh!

BetweenLove_n_Hate: they had the dagger! They had it. They could control Rumple, even though he was dying, force him to go to them, and kill him. They didn’t need to go through all the hoops to get to him.

ariestess: ITA nikkeh!

LZClotho: BetweenLove: very true

michelle_2011: thanks for the panels and everything femslash

Otakugamer01: anyone else tired of their penchant for killing off characters instead of putting aside to used them again such as Cora/Lancelot and who know who else

Shatterpath: YAY!

pancakeshio: this panel was fun! thanks!

Nikkeh: they could have put the heart back in cora and she would have been a good person and rumple died

maggiemerc: thanks for inviting me! I had a blast talking with you all

alinaandalion: This was fun.  Thanks for doing this!

BetweenLove_n_Hate: Thanks for a great panel!

chilly-flame: thank you @ariestess! time flew–sorry i had to vanish for a bit but i was glad to be here for the rest!!

LZClotho: otaku: interesting point. there’s that ADD rearing its head again… nice toy, break toy, get new toy.

ariestess: And I need to catch up on maggiemerc’s story, too…

ariestess: lol

Kayryn: thank you and wow, that flew by didn’t it?

chilly-flame: keep writing people!!

LZClotho: ITA kayryn

pancakeshio: last thought, rumple should have died!

ariestess: Well, I’ll say this, if I decide to do the OUaT femslash exchange, I’ll make sure it’s posted all over.

chilly-flame: and making great art!

BetweenLove_n_Hate: Yes, please, everyone keep writing and creating.

LZClotho: by the way, Kayryn. Keep up your graphics work. I find them inspirational!

Nikkeh: yeah…and then red beauty

Otakugamer01: I think Cora knew how to save him with the antidote…why didn’t she use it! oh yeah the writers

Alsike: red beauty!

pancakeshio: I´m gonna miss ruby!

Nikkeh: so rumple dies cora is a good person and red beauty. everyone wins

alannasky: hi and thanks everyone for this and panelts and helpers and etc…im sad that i could have only attended for a short time on this panel and others today due to circumstances…but no matter i enjoy each moment and i thanks you guys for it

Nikkeh: mee toooo

pancakeshio: swan queen endgame, don´t forget that

Shatterpath: hell yes!

ariestess: I think the general chat will be happening in this room, but let me verify with the other mods to be sure.

Nikkeh: i dont get swan queen but ok

Otakugamer01: i’ll take swan queen in fic form, i don’t trust those two idiots

Kayryn: @Ota, I’m right there with ya

Shatterpath: I’m with Otaku on that one

Alsike: they would really mess it up.

ariestess: Yes, general chat will be in this room if y’all want to stay.

Shatterpath: though, I’d really like some filmed smootches….

Kayryn: okay, I’m heading out, it’s 1am here and I’m off to write

Kayryn: thank you for a lively discussion everyone!

pancakeshio: this was fun, til next time, bye bye!

Nikkeh: so ill just say this i dont get swan queen.

Nikkeh: bye!

BetweenLove_n_Hate: bye!

BetweenLove_n_Hate: are the rooms staying open for an after discussion like last year?

Shatterpath: Swanqueen was based on some suggestiveness and some smokin’ chemistry

Shatterpath: chemistry doesn’t have to be love

fsc_ralst: what are we discussing?

michelle_2011: good question

BetweenLove_n_Hate: we were discussing the chemistry between Regina/Emma on screen

BetweenLove_n_Hate: but I’m game for just about anything femslash related

ariestess: LOL!

fsc_ralst: Sounds like a good tagline

Nikkeh: i just said that i dont get swan queen

Nikkeh: so people are explaining

fsc_ralst: Different people get different pairings

allroadsleadtoroam: Can I post a video of explanation? If this allowed?

LZClotho: I could repost the three tweets I used to explain it to someone on twitter once.

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I think I pair Lana Parrilla with all females on the show.

Alsike: I really liked SQ at the beginning, but all the Regina angst sort of turned me off.

Nikkeh: i do that with ruby

BetweenLove_n_Hate: I pair Ruby with everyone except Emma too

fsc_ralst: links are good

Nikkeh: ruby is my person

quietheartedfsc: If your login will allow it then yes.

Gin Akasarahsmom: CRAP!

Nikkeh: im really sad that there are only like 2 ruby/lacey

fsc_ralst: No, femslash

Kayryn: Okay, one question before I’m off.

wolvie_dk: Has Meghan Ory left the show completely?

Nikkeh: yeah i was wondering that too

Otakugamer01: Ruby and Emma are my broTP’s, I can see them out partying getting plastered until the bartender calls their wives Belle and Regina to get them…

Kayryn: Which fanfom would you like to see be more active?

Kayryn: fic you’d like to read but there isn’t enough, graphics you’d like to see but don’t come across enough

Kayryn: ?

fsc_ralst: If you can send me all the transcripts I can start to get them up on site

wolvie_dk: @ota

Alsike: there was only one Ruby/Lacey- and it was only on tumblr – so I didn’t find it.  So I wrote it.  It was a really good idea.

Nikkeh: omg its you

fsc_ralst: @Kayryn that’s a long list

Nikkeh: i effing love you

Otakugamer01: Red will appear in flashbacks but no more Ruby I think…at least that’s what i got from an interview Meghan Ory gave


ariestess: I’ve got full transcripts for all 3 rooms as of about 2 minutes ago.

Nikkeh: you can have my first born

Kayryn: @Ralst, top5?

allroadsleadtoroam: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1ouUvFjlmg The non-“getters” guide to SQ (In a complete simplistic way to be sure)

Alsike: I’m really okay, thanks.

fsc_ralst: @aj brilliant

Nikkeh: Wolfstime is my jam.

wolvie_dk: @ota so we’ll only see her in wolf-form?

Alsike: oh, I was going to post the last chapter today.  But then I got distracted with a new one.

Alsike: maybe by tonight.

fsc_ralst: Erm, this changes hourly, but let’s go with: Murder in Suburbia, Bad Girls, Orange is the New Black (probably too soon), Legend of the Seeker, Bomb Girls…

Otakugamer01: no in flashbacks in FTL, as Red

Nikkeh: i haven’t finished ch 5 yet



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